Article: New Schiit Yggdrasil Blind Listening Comparison

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

OK, let's go through these one at a time. I'll do my best.

7 hours ago, Iving said:

You didn't expand too much on "disappointment

 

I'm the guy Jason talks about as not needing to hear the More is Less version every again. I didn't want to expand too much on the negative because it didn't feel right to me. I love the other two DACs and focussed on what I loved more than anything. 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, Iving said:

The divergence of measurements and SQ is also interesting.

 

Yes! At a certain point, the point almost all DACs are currently at, the measurements most commonly used don't tell us a whole lot about how the product will sound. 

 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, firedog said:

All three versions have very low distortion. All three have high to extremely high SNR. It basically means that after a certain point, we can't really hear  differences directly correlated to those measurements, or at least not in the way we'd expect.

 

Yes! I can't stop thinking about this aspect of the experience.

 

I've mentioned this previously and I'll say it again. Products should have a pass / fail rating for measurements. Showing DAC A with -130 and DAC B with -140 only serves to play with people's minds or who off for engineers who like such things.  

 

 

 

7 hours ago, firedog said:

I find it really interesting that you picked the OG Yggy out from the three. Gives me a lot of confidence in your listening results.

 

Thanks for the shot of confidence. I honestly expected to sit down and hear zero differences between the DACs. They all measure very well and any "issues" are below the threshold of human hearing (as they say). The relaxed atmosphere of the listening session and using my own music, made it pretty easy to identify the OG to my ears. Others weren't so lucky, but perhaps they don't have an OG in their systems. No slight on them, I just happen to know the OG so well. 

 

 

 

7 hours ago, firedog said:

Does Schiit have any explanation of how/why many people prefer the "cheap" version? 

Are you going to trade your Yggy OG for a Yggy Less is More? 

 

I didn't hear an explanation, but that doesn't mean Schiit doesn't have one. 

 

I will absolutely trade the OG for Less is More. "LiM" the best DAC Schiit makes. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Does this mean that a 16 bit DAC won’t benefit from a possible better 24 bit version of a song ?

 

False. You can't think about it that way. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Did you guys only use red book quality or also hi res versions ?

 

I used rebook, 24/96 and 24/176.4 material. 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Was any MQA played ?

 

I can't speak for the other two guys, but I was seeking to hear the DACs at their full potential by using lossless content as the artists intended. I had no intentions of introducing the flaws of mQa into the mix, so I did not. 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Any streaming service, or only local files ?

 

I used mostly local files, but streamed a couple. 

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Did you get the requested DAC with you back ?

 

I'm sure Schiit has real customer orders to fill first. I never expect to move ahead in that line. I'll get the Less is More when I get it. 

 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, AndrewR said:

Did the Less-Is-More provide the better portrayal of rhythm and tunes?  Also did the end result vary between red-book and hi-def files?

 

Less is More did everything better for me. To me it is the most real sounding DAC Schiit makes. I would say the most accurate but I wasn't alive for the recording of my favorite Japanese jazz performances in the 70s and my audible memory probably wouldn't last that many years, so I would never suggest one DAC is more accurate than the others. I know what a violin sounds like, but not what every Strad, every bow, in every concert hall, played by every player sounds like :~)

 

 

 

1 hour ago, jcbenten said:

I am not overly familiar with the music you used and I read very quickly but I wonder about the recording/mastering resolution vs DAC.  IOW, would true hi-res be better on the OG vs LIM?

 

I used true high resolution material, recorded digitally at 24/176.4 by Keith Johnson of Reference Recordings. LiM sounded better than OG and much better than MiL.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, manisandher said:

Hats off to Schiit for doing this. But if they'd have included one of their cheaper non-multibit DACs, that really would have been something.

 

That would have been amazing! Jason joked about putting the least expensive DACs inside the Yggy boxes. 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Maybe we see a future RJ45/SFP interface ?

 

Never happen. I've asked them on multiple occasions and pleaded for such an interface. Schiit doesn't want the maintenance involved with a network interface. 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, mfsoa said:

MMG's?  Would have been nice to evaluate the bass and treble performance of the dacs but oh well. Why go through all that trouble and then use MMGs?

 

 

I screwed up the model. It was Magnepan LRS speakers. We also used full range Salk speakers. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Why are they selling several models if most agree that the cheaper one is better?

 

It's too bad that blind tests between DACs are not more common. 

 

Because options are good. Once more than a handful of opinions come out, who knows, maybe more people will love More is Less or OG. Either way, giving people the option is great. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, hopkins said:

 

Options are great as long as more expensive equates greater value. Here they are saying: we provide different DACs at different price points but we are not going to tell you which is better. That's just stupid... IMO. 

 

 

Better is a subjective term. You seem to be advocating for the old school HiFi approach discussed in Jason's post about the new Yggys. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

If vanilla beans cost more than cocoa, then vanilla will be more expensive than chocolate, all other things being equal. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, hopkins said:

 

if a DAC manufacturer cannot clearly explain what the choice is in other terms than "specs" and "measurements" that really makes no sense to me. 

 

Then I guess it makes no sense to you. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

But all other things are never equal. Your statement summarises the Supply factor correctly. The Demand factor is just as, if not more important in determining price.

 

We have 2 DACs designed and manufactured by the same company. Given how they were designed together, I think the vanilla and chocolate analogies are pretty accurate. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

Both vanilla and chocolate are irrelevant unless there is Demand. If you mean that the Prices of the respective models are determined by what it costs to make them, then the Manufacturer is perfectly entitled to reflect those costs in asking Price. But it is Demand that will determine Sales regardless of the price of vanilla and chocolate. Here we have an anomaly in which chocolate outperforms vanilla (by your account and you don't seem alone). Demand will determine Sales in a curious way. Chocolate will sell like crazy because (fuelled by favourable reviews) it will be in high Demand and it is cheap to make and, so, the price can be kept "unshocking". Vanilla will burn out quickly (expensive to make - higher Price - no or little Demand).

 

The cynic might think that More is Less was never intended to sell and Schiit have only made 2 or 3 units knowing this in advance. Do they have some clever marketing girls and guys? In contrast they have a warehouse of Less is More ready to ship out?

 

I'll just have to pass on this one. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

I don't know about that. Jason and one of the others present preferred the MiL, no? From the sonic descriptions, I suspect I might too. I tend to go for highly resolving, and accommodate with complementary cables. How something sounds in my system does not define how it will sound in others'.

In my opinion, LiM is the most resolving. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

23 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

P. S. Better is only subjective when it's not really "better" but different.

We speak different languages. 
 

I think LiM is better. Jason Stoddard thinks MiL is better. 100% subjective. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

23 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I'd conclude that neither product is very accurate! 

 

I conclude we use two very different schools of logic. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I talked to Schiit this afternoon. I asked for the board(s) to be sent so I could just do the upgrade myself. I’ll have the OG board here if I want to switch back for testing. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, gebeege1 said:

Ok Chris, Yggy LIM or Terminator II? :-)

 

Very different animals :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Still do not understand why the guys who invented the DAC Pre do not produce a DAC with a variable attenuator when it makes so much sense in a digital audio world.

I’ve asked so many times!

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, mourip said:

This week I actually resorted to buying two moderately expensive DACs to compare to the one I bought recently just so I could find out for sure which would best fit my system.

 

3 minutes ago, mourip said:

it is hard to find good comparative review much less one surrounded with equipment similar to my own.

 

I certainly hear you, but I will not be able to get even close to satisfying your wishes. Our systems are very different, our rooms are very different, and our ears are very different. If you are interested in a more general comparison, that's something I can do. But, seeking very specific comparisons, is a tough road.

[The Computer Audiophile]

With respect to DSD, for many audiophiles it has nothing to do with what's released buy the labels. It's about using DSP before the DAC and sending DSD to the DAC. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, gebeege1 said:

would you care to elaborate?

The Yggy LiM arrives Thursday. I will be able to provide much better information with it in my system, connected to the same preamp as my other DACs. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

[The Computer Audiophile]

Mid-surgery.

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Analog 3.02 boards in and LiM chip in place. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I’m all done. Is this a bad sign? Are the highs going to sound a bit off?

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Ahhhhhhhhhh. Less truly is more. This sounds wonderful :~)

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

There are new analog boards as well?

The "analog" boards contain the DAC chips as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

LiM all day, every day. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, bbosler said:

well, that's another $2300 or so  (with tax and shipping) that Chris has "forced" me to spend 😉

 

I've spent considerable time with many of the top end DACs (DCS Debussy with clock, DCS Rossini with clock, Chord DAVE with external supplies and the Mscaler, PS Audio whatever that was, Denafrips Terminator Plus with Hermes DDC) . After all of these trials I am convinced that the way to judge these DACs is how they make you feel, how well they connect you to the music, how they make you bob your head and tap your feet. Not all the usual audiophile BS that we read in all of the reviews. So we have good news and bad news.

 

Good news.. the Schiit is a contender. It is the type of device that further convinces me that spending mega-bucks on DACs is not required for mega-performance. I have no problem if you want to drop $100K + on a Vivaldi stack and add some $10K cables to it, I'm just saying you don't need to spend that to get superb performance.

 

Bad news.. the Schiit clearly sounds much better being fed by a Mutec MC3+ USB with Mutec REF10 to it's AES input than using the USB input...  I am using

 

Roon with HQPlayer >>> ethernet >>>Jussi recommended  Atom NAA >>> USB >>> Mutec >>> AES >>> Schiit

 

 so open to the possibility that a different configuration for the USB, a different server, a different USB cable, etc. might level the field, but as is,   NAA >>> USB >>> Schiit is clearly inferior to adding in the Mutec gear. 

 

I know I am adding $6K of re-clocking gear to a $2K DAC. Oh well, a man has to do what a man has to do.... My vinyl rig has always been my reference but this is as close as I've gotten. Happy for now and we're only a few hours in.... hoping it gets even better

 

I love it!