Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 Hope its ok to give a more "nuanced" appreciation of this album. Her singing is really not my cup of tea ! It sounds "strained", and everything is "over sung". This type of singing is unfortunately popular nowadays (see, for example, Cecile McLorin Salvant). Every track is an opportunity for the singer to demonstrate her prowess, with completely unnecessary shifts in octaves from one note to the other, that really don't add anything and do not convey any real "emotion". The Bandcamp notes state: "Reflecting influences as varied as Billie Holiday, Gladys Knight, Tina Turner and Chaka Khan...". Really ? The results are very very far from the performance of any of those singers. Moreover, the music is not terribly exciting... All this seems like a very well packaged product, but without much substance behind all the hype. We can't all like the same things 😁 Mark Dirac, masch, fas42 and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, audiobomber said: I have to wonder whether you are describing Lady Black Bird, and not Lady Blackbird? They are quite different performers and your description seems to fit the first, not the second. No, I got the correct one (https://iamladyblackbird.bandcamp.com/album/black-acid-soul) but my description is maybe a little harsh. Her vocals are less exaggerated on some tracks than others. Ex: I find "It's not that easy" particularly irritating. "Lost and looking" is similar (and also simply applying a "formula"). As for the music, yes I do find it a little "dull", not only taking each track individually, but also as a whole, there is not much variety in the whole album, it is all pretty much the same tempo. Taking one track as an example - "Lost and Looking" - it is musically very poor (note that the following track is a carbon copy of that one). A few bass notes behind the singing, and then a pretty uninspired piano solo. Once again, I'm not sure what they mean by this on Bandcamp - "music that transcends the jazz scene through which the LA-based artist is rooted..." - but it does not make me want to explore the LA jazz scene 😀 As for the lyrics, I find them very "banal" as well: I'm lost and lookin' for my baby Wonder where my baby can be found Lost and lookin' for my baby Lord know my baby ain't around So, I'm lost and lookin' for my baby Wonder where my baby can be found Lost and searchin' for my baby Lord knows my baby ain't around Cry for my baby, cryin' all alone Callin' for you, come home, come home I'm lost and callin' for my baby Baby, won't you please come home, home, home? Lost and callin' for my baby I need you 'cause I'm all alone What about the lyrics to "I'tll Never Happen Again" ? I remember Our first affair All the pain Always rain Around my eyes It'll never happen again It'll never happen again ... Yawn. Count me out 😝 masch and LarryMagoo 2 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I think we need to keep in mind that music is art and one man’s musically poor is another man’s musical gem. There’s no right or wrong in music. Yes, absolutely ! But once in a while its fun (and I assume "ok") to give a dissenting point of view... Let's see what else Lady Blackbird does in the future. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, Iving said: lol Darn near all pop music is written on such feelings. It's not what you sing but how you sing it. The authenticity is what makes the music worthwhile. Del Shannon is a past master imo - but that's just mo. You don't see verbatim Shakespeare, Wordsworth, Keats, Yates put to music very often! I hear you, and I'm actually a sucker for R&B (ashamed to admit some of the stuff that I like) - à genre not generally known for the quality of its lyrics... But this is not what I was expecting here. No problem, as I mentioned it's healthy to give other points of view. I think the parallel to "jazz" (and Billie Holiday) is what got me a little wounded up. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Iving said: Jazz not my bag really - unless Dixie. I shouldn't have intruded :-) Perhaps I should not have either. Not hung up on categories, btw, it's all music. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 minutes ago, PeterG said: When you say unfortunately "popular" like Cecile McLorin Salvant, you confuse me--there is no one else on the planet who sings like Cecile I am confused as well - by McLorin's popularity and critical acclaim. I guess those who cannot stand her keep quiet? Like audio reviewers who only review equipment they like 🤣 I personally appreciate reviewers who are not afraid to give negative opinions... Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, saturdayboy said: “Lost and Looking” is by the great Sam Cooke from his Night Beat album. One of the best songs, from probably the best album of one of America’s best writer of pop songs of all time. Hey, I did mention that I appreciate R&B. Not enough to know that this was a Sam Cook song! Thanks for pointing it out and correcting me. I'm sure Sam Cook's version was more inspired. Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, kumakuma said: You've also got people who listen to Diana Krall... 👺 And Patricia Barber 🤔 OK, I'm really being an ass here so will stop before it goes too far. Back to audio equipment... botrytis, kumakuma and MikeJazz 3 Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 33 minutes ago, PeterG said: This is a "nuanced" review of Cecile. Cheers! But I disagree that "none are better or worse". You've noted that Cecile is far more skilled that most...and that Nickelback are far less Sorry, one last post to clarify things. It is easy to confuse technique with artistry. I'm not saying Salvant does not have technique! Here's a glaring contemporary example: Lady Gaga and the great Tony Bennett. I'm sure a lot of people consider Lady Gaga to be a good singer, but she is horrible in this version of "Cheek to Cheek" and destroys the song with her operatic delivery and lack of "swing". It is comical, but in fact sad to see that in his old age Bennett does not have the lucidity to avoid being involved in this. However much I like Lady Gaga, she should back off and show more respect.. Mayfair and fas42 2 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterG said: Cecile has clear influences, such as Ella, but no one else doing what she does, so it baffles me that you could suggest she's not an artist, even if you do not like her. Technique is not sufficient, and if you do have outstanding abilities you should use them appropriately. Take her interpretation of "what a little moonlight can do", which is a massacre, especially when you've heard Billie Holiday's interpretation, because Salvent sings this joyous little melody like she is being tortured. More is less in this case. Her singing is absurd. She probably heard Sarah Vaughan singing this, for example: But Sarah Vaughan, who possessed incredible technique, did not sing like this TO EVERY SONG! Whereas Salvent (a very pale copy of S.Vaughan) does because that's the only thing she knows how to do, and she thinks it's really meaningful. Sad to see that jazz has become so sterile that such uninspired interpreters can get so much praise. Here's a reminder of how Billie Holiday revolutionized singing with that cute little song (among others of course) : Mayfair 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 7 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: It’s art, there’s no such thing as appropriate. Then there's no point in reading any music reviews? We cannot express an opinion about "art"? Maybe mine was not well articulated, or the term "appropriate" was not well chosen. Regardless, sharing your enthusiasm about this album is great, but you should be open to reading negative opinions as well. It's all meant to be fun... masch 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 hours ago, kumakuma said: Here's another example of how to transform the familiar into something completely new and original. Anyone who can't see the artistry in this is dead to me... 👺 It is not as grotesque as her "what a little.." but it still leaves me cold (both the singing and the music). Funny when I heard this I immediately told myself this is the type of song that Johnny Cash would do well, looked it up and lo and behold he did sing it :) That's more like it! I'll bet that in 50 years time no one will be listening to Cecil McLoren Salvent's contortions but that Johnny Cash will still be appreciated. Iving 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: If two singers are trying to impersonate Billie, then we can probably start judging which one did it closer to the original. All other original art / performances stand on their own. A cover of a song is an original performance and we can like it or not, but there’s no right or wrong way to do it. I'm all for covers, and there are many artists I love who are not composers and don't perform originals. But in Billie Holiday's case this version she sang in 1935 is so perfect that everything pales in comparison. There are plenty of famous singers who covered it after, plenty that I like, but it always seems like a futile effort 😂 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Just now, AudioDoctor said: In. Your. Opinion. Yes! This thread is all about our opinions. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: I suppose there are still technical points that can be made regarding the performance, but subjectively, you're only getting that persons opinion. Let's say that some people's opinions are more worthwhile reading than others' Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 7 hours ago, kumakuma said: Just heard for the first time. Certainly a different take on the song. Here's another good one by the man in black His "American" albums produced by Rick Rubin are a treasure trove of awesome covers, like this Springsteen song: "Where the road is dark and the seed is sowed Where the gun is cocked and the bullet's cold Where the miles are marked in the blood and gold I'll meet you further on up the road Got on my dead man's suit and my smilin' skull ring My lucky graveyard boots and song to sing I got a song to sing, keep me out of the cold And I'll meet you further on up the road." Or "Bridge over troubled water" Then again, this is just my opinion. There are some artists for which its hard not to like anything they do. 4est 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 50 minutes ago, Iving said: Horse's mouth: "Jazz died in 1959." https://www.nola.com/entertainment_life/music/article_1c84dc11-b152-5d72-b2ab-cb53b4a391ca.html "People have no real basis or philosophy that connects jazz to their everyday life," Batiste said. "Jazz has become too much of an intellectual art form that has taken all the visceral and social elements out of the music, therefore taking it philosophically out of the culture." This can also be found in classical music with atonal music. Art is sometimes very demonstrative - think of Marcel Duchamp's urinal. What can certainly be interesting and provocative (in a good sense) as a one-time "statement" becomes dull and meaningless when turned into a "movement". Some innovative ideas just become dead ends over time. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: No, I posted it as illustrative of my point that art is 100% subjective. Some person(s) believe that piece if art is worth that much money. It could be an investment based on historical increases in the price of art, it could the person thinks Rothko is a great painter, it could be endless … Appreciation of art can require some effort, especially when confronted with art forms we are not familiar with. If you were to sit down with a modern art specialist passionate about Rothko you may end up changing your mind. If art can be explained then it is not entirely subjective. Iving 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 There's a very interesting radio show here in France called "La tribune des critiques de disques" (music reviewers forum): https://www.francemusique.fr/emissions/la-tribune-des-critiques-de-disques Each show has 3 music critics discussing several interpretations of the same work, and rating them. The discussions are fascinating, and the critics generally tend to agree. Listening to a show can help you appreciate the qualities of the composer as well as the musicians/conductors (the latter playing a significant role in our appreciation of the former). Music appreciation is a process, and there is a lot we can learn from reading about music or listening to what "experts" have to say, even if we don't always agree with them. PeterG 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 Just wanted to add that aside for those "intellectual" considerations, we should not forget that one metric for great music is the emotional response it generates. Here is a fine example with this performance of a Beatles medley for the Kennedy Center Honors to Paul McCartney. I love watching how people in the audience react in these settings. There's another good one where you can see Yo-Yo Ma shaking his head to Heart's performance of "Stairway to Heaven". This is of course not limited to any "genre". You can cry while listening to Chopin or Bach or Led Zeppelin, or Lady Blackbird :) pas 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 8, 2021 Share Posted September 8, 2021 On 9/7/2021 at 12:12 AM, The Computer Audiophile said: It’s art, there’s no such thing as appropriate. Your comment made me think of the "musical saw". Incidentally, however, that performance does remind me of Cecil McLorin Salvant's singing on "What a little moonlight can do" so perhaps some people may actually like it 😂 So here's something else that I think every one will relate to and agree to be completely unnecessary from a musical standpoint 😁 Link to comment
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