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Coax in Office - How to Get Wired Connection to Desktop?


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I recently retired (yay!).  When I was working, I had a residential internet account through a living room coax connection and modem, and a business internet account through a coax connection and modem in the office - two separate modems.

 

Now the business account is done, but the office coax connection is still "live" and can be used with the residential account, *if* I can figure out how to connect from the office coax to my desktop PC.

 

I don't think I want two modems on the same network/account, because it's my impression they'll interfere with each other.  I was looking at MoCA adapters, but I'm thinking what they're actually for is kind of like powerline adapters - running Ethernet over coax from one MoCA adapter to others.

 

So is there anything that I can use to make a wired connection from the coax ISP outlet in the office to my PC?

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Jud, if your office “live” coax comes directly from the “street,” then I’m not sure anything can be done with it. 

Auralic Aries G2, Ayre QX-5 Twenty, Ayre KX-5 Twenty, Ayre VX-5 Twenty, Revel Ultima Studio2, Iconoclast speaker cables & interconnects, RealTraps acoustic treatments, Sonore opticalModule (X2)

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@Jud

When you says ethernet over coax, does that mean your ISP is using Docsis 3 or 3.1 ?  
Or is your intention just to use coax internally in your home as transportation of ethernet like WiFi and a home plug. I don’t think so as you already mentioned it as a not possible option. 
 

18 hours ago, Jud said:

Now the business account is done, but the office coax connection is still "live" and can be used with the residential account, *if* I can figure out how to connect from the office coax to my desktop PC.

Can you draw a diagram of your network?

 

18 hours ago, Jud said:

I had a residential internet account through a living room coax connection and modem, and a business internet account through a coax connection and modem in the office - two separate modems.

So there is two available ISP separate available coax outside your house ?


 

18 hours ago, Jud said:

So is there anything that I can use to make a wired connection from the coax ISP outlet in the office to my PC?

Is this the same as asking “How can I reuse TV cables in my house for networking?

 

I guess the the mentioned MoCA is the only answer. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

 

And it can do more speed than your 1,2 GB your ISP is delivering to you.

https://www.amazon.com/MoCA-2-5-Gigabit-Ethernet-Ports/dp/B07Z3SB1HH

 

Is the intention to create a wired backhaul for your mesh maybe ?

https://nerdtechy.com/best-moca-adapter

 

https://worldwidesupply.net/blog/moca-adapters-beginners-guide/

 

 

You have just made me thinking that I can use this technology to create a separate network for audio. Using my old unused TV coax. 😀

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56 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@Jud

When you says ethernet over coax, does that mean your ISP is using Docsis 3 or 3.1 ?  
Or is your intention just to use coax internally in your home as transportation of ethernet like WiFi and a home plug. I don’t think so as you already mentioned it as a not possible option. 
 

Can you draw a diagram of your network?

 

So there is two available ISP separate available coax outside your house ?


 

Is this the same as asking “How can I reuse TV cables in my house for networking?

 

I guess the the mentioned MoCA is the only answer. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimedia_over_Coax_Alliance

 

And it can do more speed than your 1,2 GB your ISP is delivering to you.

https://www.amazon.com/MoCA-2-5-Gigabit-Ethernet-Ports/dp/B07Z3SB1HH

 

Is the intention to create a wired backhaul for your mesh maybe ?

https://nerdtechy.com/best-moca-adapter

 

https://worldwidesupply.net/blog/moca-adapters-beginners-guide/

 

 

You have just made me thinking that I can use this technology to create a separate network for audio. Using my old unused TV coax. 😀

 

Thanks - I'm terrible at the diagramming stuff, sorry.  (Though software suggestions for doing it are welcome.)

 

I don't know whether the split in the coax was inside the house (at the garage junction box?) or outside, but I have two ISP coax outlets in my home, one in the living room and one in the office.  The one in the office was used for my business account; the ISP has told me that it is available to be used for the residential account.

 

The problem with using MoCA is that it operates on a different frequency than DOCSIS (my ISP is compatible with DOCSIS 3.1 and 3.0).  So I think I would need to have at least two MoCA adapters, one at an origin point (for example, my garage network junction box) and one at the cable outlet in the office.  The adapter at the origin point would provide the Ethernet signal at the proper frequency to be picked up by the MoCA adapter in the office.  (This is the reason MoCA adapters won't, or at least should not, interfere with DOCSIS-based cable modems - different frequencies.)  That would start to make things pretty complicated in the garage, since I plan to convert from copper to optical Ethernet at that location and already have the equipment.  It would also mean at least $200 for the two MoCA adapters (two Motorola MM1025).

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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10 minutes ago, Jud said:

Though software suggestions for doing it are welcome.


I use PowerPoint for things like this.

 

As for the coax cable, could you use it to pull an Ethernet (copper or fiber) cable? If you don’t feel comfortable doing, could your ISP do it? My ISP will perform this task for a slight fee. They run CAT5 cable but will run whatever cable you want to provide, within reason.

 

Also, congrats on retirement. I semi-retired last year so now work just a few hours each week and really enjoy the life style.

Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > fitlet2 (Linux Mint - HQP NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client, DSP with HQP convolution engine, Intel NUC (Roon server)

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2 minutes ago, ericuco said:

As for the coax cable, could you use it to pull an Ethernet (copper or fiber) cable?

 

Even better - I just found the optical fiber outlet in the office!  It was behind a blank wall plate that was in back of the shredder, which is large enough I haven't moved it since I brought it in almost 4 years ago.  (It was the business's - the admin assistant told me to "keep it as a lovely parting gift," which was great, since heavy duty shredders aren't cheap.) Whew!  So now all I need is another relatively inexpensive optical-to-Ethernet converter and an SFP and I'm good!

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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7 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Even better - I just found the optical fiber outlet in the office!  It was behind a blank wall plate that was in back of the shredder, which is large enough I haven't moved it since I brought it in almost 4 years ago.  (It was the business's - the admin assistant told me to "keep it as a lovely parting gift," which was great, since heavy duty shredders aren't cheap.) Whew!  So now all I need is another relatively inexpensive optical-to-Ethernet converter and an SFP and I'm good!


The TP-Link MC220L work well although you might consider a switch instead like the Mikrotik 610-8G-2S+IN which would be more versatile.

Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > fitlet2 (Linux Mint - HQP NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client, DSP with HQP convolution engine, Intel NUC (Roon server)

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11 hours ago, Jud said:

Thanks - I'm terrible at the diagramming stuff, sorry.  (Though software suggestions for doing it are welcome.)

 

Pen and paper. Attach pictures taken with your phone.

 

If you have an iPad: Lekh Diagram

 

11 hours ago, Jud said:

So now all I need is another relatively inexpensive optical-to-Ethernet converter and an SFP and I'm good!

How do you know that fiber is active, and what type ?

 

The suggest $99 Mikrotik ought to be a better solution. 
 

11 hours ago, Jud said:

The problem with using MoCA is that it operates on a different frequency than DOCSIS

I don’t think you can have coax out from your modem. My understanding is MoCA requires 2 boxes (or more ) and the coax isn’t connected to anything else than the MoCA’s. 
 

11 hours ago, Jud said:

the ISP has told me that it is available to be used for the residential account.

If so, it has the be the same coax. Can you have your ISP explain how this is utilized? Maybe a second modem ?  It should, as a test, be possible to move your present modem to that other outlet, and have internet available. Agree ?

If so, the use of MoCA probably requires you do disconnect coax somewhere close to present location of modem, and you may need to add / move the end of line resistor in your coax network in addition.


Let’s know if the discovery of fiber will have a successful outcome. 
 

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8 hours ago, R1200CL said:

I don’t think you can have coax out from your modem. My understanding is MoCA requires 2 boxes (or more ) and the coax isn’t connected to anything else than the MoCA’s. 

 

8 hours ago, R1200CL said:

If so, it has the be the same coax. Can you have your ISP explain how this is utilized? Maybe a second modem ?  It should, as a test, be possible to move your present modem to that other outlet, and have internet available. Agree ?

If so, the use of MoCA probably requires you do disconnect coax somewhere close to present location of modem, and you may need to add / move the end of line resistor in your coax network in addition.

MoCA is pretty easy and compatible with other things running on the same coax.  For example, I have run it over the same cables with my main cable internet feed and with video.  All that is needed is, indeed, two (or more) MoCA devices that will talk to each other over the cable and ignore whatever else is on it.  Conversely, the presence of MoCA has no effect on the other matters. 

 

It works well.........if it suits your needs.  I used it for a couple of years until I rewired the apartment with CAT6 and enjoyed a great boost in speed/bandwidth, the only limitations of MoCA.   (Anyone need a few MoCA boxes?)

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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22 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Pen and paper. Attach pictures taken with your phone.

 

If you have an iPad: Lekh Diagram

 

How do you know that fiber is active, and what type ?

 

I've attached a diagram. It differs from the current situation in that I have one fiber media converter in the living room and another in the office, but they're not receiving the signal from the Mikrotik. This is likely because the converters have SFP slots, while the Mikrotik uses SFP+. So I've decided to bite the bullet: I'm returning the converters and replacing them with two more Mikrotik switches so everything will be compatible. That's what the diagram shows.

 

Slide1.thumb.jpg.fb96da685bf5f770a747db338f391121.jpg

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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52 minutes ago, Jud said:

This is likely because the converters have SFP slots, while the Mikrotik uses SFP+.

That should not be an issue. Are you using same SFP modules both places?

Also, can you test the fiber line with converters only ?

 

Have you open the web interface of the Mikrotik and verified that the SFP module(s) is present ?

 

Your drawing shows two separate fiber lines from the garage. Is that correct ?

And if so, how do you know which one goes where ?

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Not 100% assured, but SFP and SFP+ cages are the same...as far as accepting either transceiver. I have used them interchangeably, same type on either end, and lower bit rate in effect, of course.
 

I also have a copper ISP and a different fiber ISP. An elementary call out, but: I have been tricked a couple of times with wifi routers and devices pointing to the wrong network somehow. I didn't ask them to!  Sorry, as I recognize that is very basic, @Jud but...

I'm MarkusBarkus and I approve this post.10C78B47-4B41-4675-BB84-885019B72A8B.thumb.png.adc3586c8cc9851ecc7960401af05782.png

 

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@Jud any reason for not going with fiber between Mikrotik switch and ER in living room and bypassing mesh router? Just seems to me for all the good you are doing using fiber to living room then passing it thru the mesh router is a step in the wrong direction. 

Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > fitlet2 (Linux Mint - HQP NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client, DSP with HQP convolution engine, Intel NUC (Roon server)

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31 minutes ago, ericuco said:

@Jud any reason for not going with fiber between Mikrotik switch and ER in living room and bypassing mesh router? Just seems to me for all the good you are doing using fiber to living room then passing it thru the mesh router is a step in the wrong direction. 

 

Hi @ericuco, the reason is that the mesh router gives me strong Wi-Fi or wired connections to the Apple TV, television, Blu-ray players for ripping SACDs or playing movies.... Smooth operation of the television with anything up through 4K programming is essential for keeping my wife happy. 🙂

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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11 hours ago, R1200CL said:

That should not be an issue. Are you using same SFP modules both places?

Also, can you test the fiber line with converters only ?

 

Have you open the web interface of the Mikrotik and verified that the SFP module(s) is present ?

 

Your drawing shows two separate fiber lines from the garage. Is that correct ?

And if so, how do you know which one goes where ?

 

4 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Not 100% assured, but SFP and SFP+ cages are the same...as far as accepting either transceiver. I have used them interchangeably, same type on either end, and lower bit rate in effect, of course.
 

I also have a copper ISP and a different fiber ISP. An elementary call out, but: I have been tricked a couple of times with wifi routers and devices pointing to the wrong network somehow. I didn't ask them to!  Sorry, as I recognize that is very basic, @Jud but...

 

Thanks to both of you for good practical questions. I'll try to answer them all.

 

I only have one ISP, one account, and one home network.

 

I haven't tested the fiber line with converters only, but that's a good idea to check for compatibility between transceiver modules and FMCs.

 

Yes I have the same transceiver modules everywhere.

 

I actually have 8 fiber runs. The electrical subcontractor who installed them when the house was being built conveniently labeled each of them on both ends, 0 through 7. One being misnumbered could happen (though the subcontractor did good careful work), but misnumbering both of the two I happened to use seems unlikely.

 

When I try to open the Mikrotik web interface using their phone app, I get the message "Connection refused." The web interface on the PC also does not connect. However, the green light under the E on the Mikrotik is lit, so I believe it is getting the Ethernet connection from the router.

 

I have other reasons for changing to the Mikrotiks. It will allow me to have up to 10G wired connections, while the FMCs are only rated for 1.25G. Also, I will only have to check transceiver compatibility with one product instead of two.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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33 minutes ago, Jud said:

When I try to open the Mikrotik web interface using their phone app, I get the message "Connection refused." The web interface on the PC also does not connect.

 

Might consider trying their WinBox64 app.  I had difficulties trying to connect to switches using the default IP address but the app was able to locate switches. Also the app makes it easy to organize and connect to the switches.

 

That said, the Mikrotik switches will generally work straight out the of box.

 

1801781502_MikrotikWinbox.jpg.363804edbc7fb3f0ff1849280fdee9d1.jpg

Eric


Ubuntu Studio Linux box (i7-9700, 8 cores, 16GB RAM, Intel X520-DA1 NIC, HQP Desktop) > fiber optic > MikroTik CRS305-1G-4S+ > fiber optic > fitlet2 (Linux Mint - HQP NAA) > T+A DAC8 DSD > Rogue Audio DragoN > Klipsch La Scala — digital volume control with HQP via Roon client, DSP with HQP convolution engine, Intel NUC (Roon server)

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1 hour ago, Jud said:

The web interface on the PC also does not connect. However, the green light under the E on the Mikrotik is lit, so I believe it is getting the Ethernet connection from the router.


I'm quite sure you don’t have a working connection. 
If your Mikrotik isn’t showing on your DHCP, something is wrong with cabling. The Mikrotik must have an IP address. You need to find it. Also I suggest you’re setting fixed IP addresses for the Mikrotik switches in your DHCP server. And name them if possible in the DHCP server, but I think name will show up automatically, based on setting (identity) as shown in picture below. 


First you must make sure the Mikrotik in garage does have a connection to internet. Do you find it’s IP address ? Is it working when you type IP address into your browser?  If yes, then you can start connecting fiber. (And find second Mikrotik IP address). 
 

C984FD22-DDA5-4E73-96B1-829D358E5805.thumb.jpeg.c471845ba40592d4ce381b76922397a9.jpeg

 

This setting allow your DHCP to assign IP address to the switch. 
I expect your DHCP can set a fixed IP address. 


If you have 8 fiber runs, you ought to be very lucky 😀

Wouldn't it then be best to at least have a 8 port SFF+ swich, and maybe have that one take over any DHCH. I’m thinking having DHCP in a 1 GB router in a 10 GB network may not be optimal. Not that I think it matters much. 

 

Can you post a picture of your junction box ?

 

BTW; my Mikrotik app isn’t working either. 

 

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27 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

If you have 8 fiber runs, you ought to be very lucky 😀

Wouldn't it then be best to at least have a 8 port SFF+ swich, and maybe have that one take over any DHCH.

 

Two runs each for four rooms for redundancy. So just 4 ports are needed for the foreseeable future. (The fiber itself is OM4 nominally rated for 40GB.)

 

I think it's best to have the mesh routers coordinate to assign IP addresses and handle DHCP, since along with the wired network I have 29 wireless devices IIRC, some of which are mobile. Yes, I do know about assigning fixed IP addresses and have done so in the past. These particular mesh routers seem to keep IP addresses per device constant on their own, so I haven't had to bother with doing it manually since I've had them.

 

 

 

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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40 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Can you post a picture of your junction box ?

 

I'll do so when I'm back home later. It's quite sloppy at the moment since I've just got things hooked up to try to get them to work, not stowed away neatly.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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2 hours ago, Jud said:

I think it's best to have the mesh routers coordinate to assign IP addresses and handle DHCP

Unless you have done so by intention, you only have one router that acts as a one single DHCP server.

So I expect the Asus XT8 “master”, is the one in your garage.

Page 66 chapter 4.2.3.

 

The AIMesh is exactly the same when set up as wireless router mode vs Access Point. (Page 84, ch.4.6). 

 

I agree no need to use AP mode now. (Which is the option if the DHCP was somewhere else).


You said in another post you may like a third WiFi 6 “router”. 
You can use any of the one listed here, and they should integrate nice into your present AIMesh network. 
So it doesn’t have to be an expensive XT8. (I’m using 4 Asus routers. Bought cheap second hand). 

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15 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Unless you have done so by intention, you only have one router that acts as a one single DHCP server.

So I expect the Asus XT8 “master”, is the one in your garage.

 

Yes that's correct.

 

Quote

You said in another post you may like a third WiFi 6 “router”. 

You can use any of the one listed here, and they should integrate nice into your present AIMesh network. 
So it doesn’t have to be an expensive XT8. (I’m using 4 Asus routers. Bought cheap second hand). 

 

True, but with 29 devices, some of which are 4K video devices, and a laptop I use to  download hi res albums and upload them to cloud backup, I like my Wi-Fi to be quite fast. These particular routers are the best I've had (with excellent coverage throughout the home) in those terms.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Per your request, a photo of the garage junction box.  Modem is to the left of the junction box, one of the mesh routers is above in the middle, and the Mikrotik is to the right.  (There's a white metal panel that usually fits over the box, which I'll replace when I've made provision for the various cables to run through it.)

IMG_0414.jpg

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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3 hours ago, Jud said:

I think it's best to have the mesh routers coordinate to assign IP addresses and handle DHCP, since along with the wired network I have 29 wireless devices IIRC, some of which are mobile. Yes, I do know about assigning fixed IP addresses and have done so in the past. These particular mesh routers seem to keep IP addresses per device constant on their own, so I haven't had to bother with doing it manually since I've had them.

 

DHCP for most home installs should be done on the core switch that everything connects to via Layer 2. DHCP clients check in, typically, at 1/2 their lease to make sure they are still good to go and if nothing has changed the DHCP server simply increments it's lease counter.

 

Technically your AP's will have the same IP unless you make a change.

 

AP's support 802.11k/v/r for roaming, handoff, client stick. AP's in a true wireless mesh lose 1/2 of their throughput for every mesh link. So I generally don't like doing true wireless mesh.

 

What I recommend doing is an untagged management vlan for Lights Out (iLO), switch management, AP Management. Then you configure your links to the AP's as untagged management and tagged whatever you have going one with Wireless networks. Typically one for Guest and one for Household.

 


(GSM7352Sv2) #show running-config interface 1/0/38

!Current Configuration:
!
interface  1/0/38
description 'Omada-AP-Chill_Room'
vlan pvid 10
vlan participation include 10,40,50,1921
vlan tagging 40,50,1921
exit

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I have little to no idea what goes on with my network, but I do notice that with 1.2gbps nominal download speed from the ISP, I usually get ~700mbps when testing wireless speed with my phone.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen -> USPCB -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC -> Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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