The Computer Audiophile Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 View full article Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
davide256 Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Thanks for the research! The Computer Audiophile 1 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 I bet that we should have realized all three brands were coming from the same country, maybe in some cases someone over there could feel very so free to claim just about anything without the burden of proof? https://www.findthisbest.com/sellers/amazon/rhodesxu https://www.findthisbest.com/sellers/amazon/orico-direct-us-store https://www.findthisbest.com/sellers/amazon/yottamaster-technology-coltd Heck, Yottamaster turned out to be nothing more than a trademark of Orico to begin with https://trademarks.justia.com/877/93/yottamaster-87793446.html In other words, we've gotta know what the deal is by now. BTW, the stringent requirements of USB 4.0 turned out to require some kinda certification / compliance etc. in order to achieve 40Gbps for real https://www.usb.org/sites/default/files/D2T1-2 - USB4 Compliance and Certification.pdf https://www.techadvisor.com/test-centre/accessories/best-thunderbolt-4-usb4-cables-3802567/ Or maybe only the cables would require that certification from Intel or something? The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
jcbenten Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 NOTE: ALL ANECDOTAL...NO SPEED TESTING PERFORMED. I salvaged a couple of 512GB Samsung NVME OEM drives from a laptop that could not withstand a quick shower. I put them in different housings (I can look them up if need be) and have USB-C connectors. Off the top of my head...I have no idea of the specifications they "adhere" to...but they seem pretty quick. Quick enough that I use my myriad of spinning drives (1.5 TB to 4 TB) to store stuff I may never see or use again. No surprise to me that the USB 4 spec is out with no hardware available. If the chip shortage is sidelining F150s no one wants spend fab space on geeky stuff. The Computer Audiophile 1 QNAP TS453Pro w/QLMS->Netgear Switch->Netgear RAX43 Router->Ethernet (50 ft)->Netgear switch->SBTouch ->SABAJ A10d->Linn Majik-IL (preamp)->Linn 2250->Linn Keilidh; Control Points: iPeng (iPad Air & iPhone); Also: Rega P3-24 w/ DV 10x5; OPPO 103; PC Playback: Foobar2000 & JRiver; Portable: iPhone 12 ProMax & Radio Paradise or NAS streaming; Sony NWZ ZX2 w/ PHA-3; SMSL IQ, Fiio Q5, iFi Nano iDSD BL; Garage: Edifier S1000DB Active Speakers Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Ouch, I forgot to ask if Chris were having any Thunderbolt 3 cables so that switching to JHL7440 might give us an idea of how close one could get to that 2,800MB/sec (theoretical) limit https://eshop.macsales.com/blog/68484-thunderbolt-on-the-m1-mac-mini/ Quote Wow, that’s unlike any other Thunderbolt-equipped Mac I’ve ever used. System Report indicates that there are two Thunderbolt buses, one for each of the Thunderbolt ports!! This means that each port has its own dedicated bus and doesn’t have to share its bandwidth with any other port. Each one will have 2,800 MB/sec all to itself. I was a bit skeptical and wanted to test this to be certain. Link to comment
Danny Kaey Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 it's genuinely fascinating the break-neck speed of development when you consider that I still remember the novelty of USB keyboards and mice! LOL! 🤣 The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 5, 2021 Author Share Posted August 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, Danny Kaey said: it's genuinely fascinating the break-neck speed of development when you consider that I still remember the novelty of USB keyboards and mice! LOL! 🤣 The beauty of upgrading from a parallel printer to a USB 1 model! Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post bobfa Posted August 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2021 I am using the OWC ThunderBay Flex 8 as a DAS. I have a 2TB NVME drive in one of the top bays and an 18TB Spinner in the lower bay. Now the spinner is SATA so that is the bottleneck. Note that the NVME in my ThunderBay is a two year old drive from the Samsung external T5 drive case. NOTE I changed the fan in the ThunderBay to something a lot quieter. Still hear the HD tick !!! The M1 Mac mini has two Thunderbolt Ports and busses Each port is USB 4 with Thunderbolt 4 that can split out into two busses each. I have one hooked to my 4k Display and the other to the ThunderBay.: This is the internal drive: This is the NVME in the Thunderbay: This is the NAS spinner in the Thunderbay: AudioDoctor and Exocer 2 My Audio Systems Link to comment
bobfa Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 52 minutes ago, jcbenten said: NOTE: ALL ANECDOTAL...NO SPEED TESTING PERFORMED. I salvaged a couple of 512GB Samsung NVME OEM drives from a laptop that could not withstand a quick shower. I put them in different housings (I can look them up if need be) and have USB-C connectors. Off the top of my head...I have no idea of the specifications they "adhere" to...but they seem pretty quick. Quick enough that I use my myriad of spinning drives (1.5 TB to 4 TB) to store stuff I may never see or use again. No surprise to me that the USB 4 spec is out with no hardware available. If the chip shortage is sidelining F150s no one wants spend fab space on geeky stuff. There is some USB 4 hardware out there, but not much. OWC sells a couple of Docking station things. I am sure there are others. My Audio Systems Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 9 minutes ago, bobfa said: I am using the OWC ThunderBay Flex 8 as a DAS. I have a 2TB NVME drive in one of the top bays and an 18TB Spinner in the lower bay. Now the spinner is SATA so that is the bottleneck. Note that the NVME in my ThunderBay is a two year old drive from the Samsung external T5 drive case. NOTE I changed the fan in the ThunderBay to something a lot quieter. Still hear the HD tick !!! The M1 Mac mini has two Thunderbolt Ports and busses Each port is USB 4 with Thunderbolt 4 that can split out into two busses each. I have one hooked to my 4k Display and the other to the ThunderBay.: This is the internal drive: This is the NVME in the Thunderbay: This is the NAS spinner in the Thunderbay: Bob, can I use this as an excuse to buy this for when my SO asks why I need it? But honey, Bob has one! kennyb123 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
botrytis Posted August 5, 2021 Share Posted August 5, 2021 Simpler thing to do.... USB 3.0 hot swap cradle - SATA to USB. I have one and tested the transfer rate at 5 GB/S with a SATA 6 8 TB Spinning HD. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Popular Post ddps Posted August 7, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2021 I am not sure what you are doing, but even USB2 bandwidth @ 480mbps is more than adequate for playback of things like DSD512 @ 44.8mbps. I have never had performance problems with cheap USB2 drives playing any audio files even up to DSD512. Are you sure your drive doesn’t have some “advanced“ power saving issues that are causing your problems? Gonzbull and botrytis 2 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 Perhaps I missed how long this has been a problem, but does windows index a drive similarly to the way MAC OS does? If so, could that be the problem? Otherwise, I am guessing it's Roon scanning the drive constantly as it watches for new files. I just ordered one of these with 4 spinning drives for my Mac mini , the 16TB enterprise drive version because that's the smallest. https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3SRE16.0S/ Thunderbolt should be fast enough. edit: and I just realized your CAPS motherboard has thunderbolt connectors! No electron left behind. Link to comment
Jud Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 2 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: Perhaps I missed how long this has been a problem, but does windows index a drive similarly to the way MAC OS does? If so, could that be the problem? Otherwise, I am guessing it's Roon scanning the drive constantly as it watches for new files. Windows and Mac differ in how they index a drive, so what you’re thinking about is a possibility. If you were talking about a backup program there would be settings allowing the changes made by both file systems to remain intact so you wouldn’t be constantly adding Windows changes and subtracting MacOS changes, and vice versa. I have no idea what the Roon settings are “under the hood.” One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
jabbr Posted August 7, 2021 Share Posted August 7, 2021 On 8/5/2021 at 10:38 AM, The Computer Audiophile said: View full article At first I thought you were referring to the concept of using an optical USB4 cable for DAC isolation 😝 In the storage space for super high speed external NVME NAS we are seeing new NVME storage arrays connected by 100Gbe fiber for ... breathtaking speed The Computer Audiophile 1 Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 46 minutes ago, Jud said: Windows and Mac differ in how they index a drive, so what you’re thinking about is a possibility. If you were talking about a backup program there would be settings allowing the changes made by both file systems to remain intact so you wouldn’t be constantly adding Windows changes and subtracting MacOS changes, and vice versa. I have no idea what the Roon settings are “under the hood.” I am only referring to what Mac OS does with Spotlight to enable search of files and such on the drives. I don't know anything much about windows and how it works. No electron left behind. Link to comment
stefano_mbp Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 7 hours ago, jabbr said: In the storage space for super high speed external NVME NAS we are seeing new NVME storage arrays connected by 100Gbe fiber for ... breathtaking speed It make sense for a corporate environment, where many (maybe thousands) users need to access data, but I really don’t thing that this can be useful for an home environment where you access one file at a time … it seems like to buy a McLaren Senna to run around in courtyard … Stefano My audio system Link to comment
jabbr Posted August 8, 2021 Share Posted August 8, 2021 13 hours ago, stefano_mbp said: It make sense for a corporate environment, where many (maybe thousands) users need to access data, but I really don’t thing that this can be useful for an home environment where you access one file at a time … it seems like to buy a McLaren Senna to run around in courtyard … Well on one hand ... sure. On the other hand I've never been fond of the USB interface to store a music library, or for a storage array. NVME has become popular for hanging fast storage on the PCIe bus and NVMEoF is extending the PCIe bus over the network ... The reason this discussion is apropos to this thread is that Thunderbolt was envisioned as a way to extend the PCIe bus over a wire -- that's essentially the protocol. USB4 has merged thunderbolt and USB ... Thunderbolt has had disappointing motherboard support and really hasn't caught on ... 100Gbe NICs are already yesterday's news so I'm discussing two competing visions of how to extend the PCIe bus out of the box. Sure, you can still just put your storage on a 1Tb USB thumbdrive and years ago no one could imagine that a home would need 1Tb or storage ... regarding speed, think virtualization, VR, holographics etc and why not at home? Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
John Hughes Posted August 12, 2021 Share Posted August 12, 2021 TLDR USB 3.1 USB C external drives with 2.5" SSDs can work quite well as a music store without lag using Roon. I recently moved my Roon Core install from my main PC (which is a beast) to an older Dell Workstation I had around (about 7 years old, but a Core i7 with 16GB). My music drive is a 4TB 2.5" Samsung 860 SSD. I tried Ubuntu first, and that worked with the drive inside the machine on the SATA bus. But I couldn't get my Windows machines to connect to drives I've shared from Ubuntu. So instead I installed Roon server to make it a Rock, or Mock. I was surprised that this worked perfectly without any customization or fiddling. And the shared drives show on every one of my devices without an issue (though the network paths are kind of convoluted and you can't change the name of the music directory to something easier). I tried the SSD drive as both internal SATA and with a USB 3.1 USB C enclosure (connected to PC with USB A 3.1 cable to USB C into enclosure) There was no delay starting music tracks to my ears with either configuration. I setup the SSD internally. I have a houseguest staying with me that is a non-audiophile techie. He without prompting told me he liked the sound better with the new setup. It was smoother and more relaxed. I heard the same. Since I use some Parametric EQ in Roon and I play a lot of higher rez files, there has always been a slight delay when starting and stopping tracks while that processing kicks in. With the Mock, it is actually substantially decreased to be almost unnoticeable. That was a surprise. I then setup a used 2TB Western Digital Blue SSD 2.5" drive in the USB C enclosure to be my video network drive. This also works flawlessly with less lag than my previous PC internal hard drive. Link to comment
heycarlos Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 I'm a little confused by this article because the speed of the interface is not the source of the problem it's the spinning media. If you put 16TB of Flash memory inside a USB 2.0 (480Mbps) enclosure you would see a massive speed up of your music library. Spinning disks are orders of magnitude slower than Flash memory in terms of access time and latency. Genelec 8030a with 7050b sub > Peachtree Decco 2 > Apple TV Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 The author is not the source of the problem it's the failure to read the entire article from the beginning to the end. It's 16TB SATA spinner at the very beginning, and then the author clearly stated that's changed to a 2TB NVMe SSD afterwards. Duh. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 The USB Connection on the M1 may be the culprit here Chris. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/usb-on-m1-macs-isnt-actually-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/ No electron left behind. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted August 16, 2021 Author Share Posted August 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: The USB Connection on the M1 may be the culprit here Chris. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/usb-on-m1-macs-isnt-actually-10gb-s-also-definitely-not-usb4.2269777/ The drive is connected to CAPS Twenty. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: The drive is connected to CAPS Twenty. then I guess I should read more thoroughly... the situation there could be similar, I don't know. the latest USB schemes are very confusing. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Bob Stern Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 Thermal Throttling: SSDs often slow down after writing some amount of continuous data because they overheat, which triggers their firmware to slow down the transfer rate. To observe this, you can let the SSD speed test run for several minutes. It's easy to do that with the Blackmagic app, which simply repeats the 5GB write and read tests until you stop it. My Oyen Helix Dura 2TB external drive has 950 MB/s write speed for the first 3 minutes, then drops to about half that. I just ordered from Costco a similar SanDisk drive that, according to reviews, suffers less thermal throttling. I'll find out. Both are USB 3.2 Gen 2. HQPlayer (on 3.8 GHz 8-core i7 iMac 2020) > NAA (on 2012 Mac Mini i7) > RME ADI-2 v2 > Benchmark AHB-2 > Thiel 3.7 Link to comment
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