mourip Posted August 29, 2021 Share Posted August 29, 2021 I have a T2 and have found that setting it to NOS and upsampling everything to DSD128 in Roon gives a really nice increase in SQ. I would set it higher but my older "CAPS-like" server has a i3 processor which is now getting very hot with the increased calculating. I have a Hermes DDC on the way so I will report back on that. Currently I send USB to a Mutec USB and then AES out to the T2. My Mutec USB is clocked by a Mutec REF10. It will be interesting to see if the Hermes slaved to the T2 sounds better. "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
mourip Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 On 8/4/2021 at 1:01 AM, BrownMagic said: We did a Doge 8 vs Terminator Plus w/ DDC vs Holo May KTE shoot out and the audience voted for the Holo May as the overall winner in this setup. YMMV. Also as per @GoldenOne's findings, the terminator upsamples content to 768k even in NOS mode. So for those of you who want to compare the Terminator with other dacs, you might want to use HQP to upsample the other dacs as well. Good data point. I do wonder if the impressions would have been different if the comparison had been made with the more current Terminator 2 and the new Hermes DDC. These units have clock out and clock in respectively. I am interesting in the claim regarding NOS "upsampling". Can you provide a reference or link? Thanks! "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
BrownMagic Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 On 9/3/2021 at 8:27 PM, mourip said: I am interesting in the claim regarding NOS "upsampling". Can you provide a reference or link? https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2612:denafrips-terminator-plus-digital-to-analog-converter-measurements&catid=434&Itemid=577 You can see in the above measurements that NOS is not really NOS. This was also called out by GoldenSound in his review. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, BrownMagic said: https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2612:denafrips-terminator-plus-digital-to-analog-converter-measurements&catid=434&Itemid=577 You can see in the above measurements that NOS is not really NOS. This was also called out by GoldenSound in his review. I believe it depends on what sample rate is being sent to the DAC. If one sends 1,536 kHz, it’s NOS. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
BrownMagic Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: I believe it depends on what sample rate is being sent to the DAC. If one sends 1,536 kHz, it’s NOS. I do not how know it works at 1.536. I am of the understanding that if you were to feed your Qobuz/Tidal which say is 16/44 to 24/192 into any denafrips dac and the mode selected is NOS, then the DAC applies DSP and upsamples it to 768k by default. Where as a NOS dac in NOS mode should allow 16/44 to be processed as 16/44. Maybe @GoldenOne you can explain in lay man's terms why denafrips dacs are not really NOS in their NOS mode compared to other NOS dacs. Thanks Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 4 hours ago, BrownMagic said: I do not how know it works at 1.536. I am of the understanding that if you were to feed your Qobuz/Tidal which say is 16/44 to 24/192 into any denafrips dac and the mode selected is NOS, then the DAC applies DSP and upsamples it to 768k by default. Where as a NOS dac in NOS mode should allow 16/44 to be processed as 16/44. Maybe @GoldenOne you can explain in lay man's terms why denafrips dacs are not really NOS in their NOS mode compared to other NOS dacs. Thanks Cause the 'NOS' mode still applies an oversampling filter, therefore it is not 'non-oversampling'. Simple as that really. It might not do so when feeding it 768khz or 1.536mhz, but then you'd need to be doing oversampling with HQPlayer or another external OS tool anyway. Meaning you're still oversampling. It cannot play standard PCM content at 44.1khz without oversampling. https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I have a terminator plus coming in for review and I'll do a bit more extensive testing once it arrives. If anyone has anything in particular they'd like me to look at please let me know. Rockna Wavedream signature review is up on patreon and will be up on youtube at the end of the week. https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 6, 2021 Author Share Posted September 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, GoldenOne said: Cause the 'NOS' mode still applies an oversampling filter, therefore it is not 'non-oversampling'. Simple as that really. It might not do so when feeding it 768khz or 1.536mhz, but then you'd need to be doing oversampling with HQPlayer or another external OS tool anyway. Meaning you're still oversampling. It cannot play standard PCM content at 44.1khz without oversampling. Which begs the question, do people really listen to NOS mode with content that isn’t externally upsampled? Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
GoldenOne Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 35 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Which begs the question, do people really listen to NOS mode with content that isn’t externally upsampled? Quite a lot of people do. Whether that's better/worse than os will likely forever be debated. Personally I listen to nos and os in mostly equal amounts. They provide different sounds and I like using one or the other depending on mood and track. But quality of different reconstruction approaches can be debated on the merits of those. The reason I don't like denafrips calling the DACs NOS isn't because I think they 'should' have NOS, it's because I don't think any manufacturer should advertise features or behaviours that the device does not actually have. https://youtube.com/goldensound Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara Link to comment
Popular Post mourip Posted September 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 hours ago, GoldenOne said: The reason I don't like denafrips calling the DACs NOS isn't because I think they 'should' have NOS, it's because I don't think any manufacturer should advertise features or behaviours that the device does not actually have. I agree. I hope that the Denefrips engineer will cover that topic in his interview. I know that there are many paths to engineering good sound but the concept of NOS does seem pretty clear and should be used that way. Bottom line for me will always be how something sounds. I bought a Terminator 2 about a month ago based upon reports of how it sounded. I also got a Hermes DDC about a week ago and am now trying all of the possible combinations and permutations of inputs and settings. I imaging that I am still in the break-in phase of both units. Almost right away I decided that I preferred the "NOS" setting on the T2. I am also experimenting with upsampling in Roon. I do like setting it to DSD but also to "Max PCM rate". I am using the clock-out feature of the T2 back to the Hermes. I am also experimenting with both I2S and AES for the data connection to the T2. I thought that I would like the I2S more but am finding that I favor AES, although it is limited somewhat for data rate. Based upon reading these past few posts I will try IS2 with "max data rate" oversampling set in Roon to see what 1.536mhz sounds like with the T2 set for NOS. One of these days I may try HQplay (if I can ever find a simple instructions for setting it up.) GoldenOne and mikicasellas 2 "Don't Believe Everything You Think" System Link to comment
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