Researching SD Card Transports

[bobfa]

56 minutes ago, pm325 said:

Upl96etl:

Supports 44.1/16 to 96/24. Based on STM32 ARM.

I will look into it.  The website shows drawings of all of their gear no real pictures.....  

 

Thanks

[tapatrick]

9 hours ago, bobfa said:

As sort of a side note to this.  What SD cards are folks using these days.  I have started searching for SLC cards.  I have a lot of SanDisk 8Gb cards from my Photography.

There was a lot of experimenting with modifying cheap chinese SD card transports over on TirhaHifi over the past few years (the guys there took it quite far but it has gone quiet now as attention has shifted to a DAC project). The one I made with help from the TirNa thread was my best source for a long time with replacement clocks and power - there were reports that this project beat or equalled the SDTrans but it is a heavily DIY project - ie lots of fun!

 

I have moved on since but the cards you use to store the music do make a big difference. The more expensive SLC cards are recommended ie Panasonic SLC  - beware of cheaper, less quality versions.

[bobfa]

3 hours ago, tapatrick said:

There was a lot of experimenting with modifying cheap chinese SD card transports over on TirhaHifi over the past few years (the guys there took it quite far but it has gone quiet now as attention has shifted to a DAC project). The one I made with help from the TirNa thread was my best source for a long time with replacement clocks and power - there were reports that this project beat or equalled the SDTrans but it is a heavily DIY project - ie lots of fun!

 

I have moved on since but the cards you use to store the music do make a big difference. The more expensive SLC cards are recommended ie Panasonic SLC  - beware of cheaper, less quality versions.

I have been reading that thread.  It is wild, and fun.  I do not think i am up for that!  I have two transports on order to play with, the SDtrans384 and the MPD-2.

 

[Rexp]

18 hours ago, tapatrick said:

There was a lot of experimenting with modifying cheap chinese SD card transports over on TirhaHifi over the past few years (the guys there took it quite far but it has gone quiet now as attention has shifted to a DAC project). The one I made with help from the TirNa thread was my best source for a long time with replacement clocks and power - there were reports that this project beat or equalled the SDTrans but it is a heavily DIY project - ie lots of fun!

 

I have moved on since but the cards you use to store the music do make a big difference. The more expensive SLC cards are recommended ie Panasonic SLC  - beware of cheaper, less quality versions.

I'm guessing you're happy with your Memory Player and don't miss SD card playback? 

[tapatrick]

4 hours ago, Rexp said:

I'm guessing you're happy with your Memory Player and don't miss SD card playback? 

Yes, very happy thanks - combined with the EC Designs transport and Fractal DAC, nothing else comes close.. I also found playing music from cards too limited but I know many others enjoy using SD card players - their simplicity and low power if implemented well can create a sweet sound quality and I did learn a lot.

[MaxBuck]

I'm still not quite sure what the problem to be solved is, but I've confirmed that my Bluesound Node can find content on an SD plugged into my Surface Pro located on the same network. The content appears to transfer flawlessly via WiFi. So I guess the Node qualifies as an SD "transport" (seems an odd term for something that's absolutely stationary).

 

I believe the same thing probably true for pretty much any DAC with a USB input if one gets digital out from one's Android or iOS device, no? I'm also assuming the device will accommodate an SD card.

[seeteeyou]

Well, just about any devices with an optical drive could be considered CD "transports" of some sort with that kinda logic.

[MaxBuck]

8 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Well, just about any devices with an optical drive could be considered CD "transports" of some sort with that kinda logic.

Pretty much.  I'm not sure how one gets better zeroes and ones by spending more on an "audiophile" digital transport of any kind.

[bobfa]

Wikipedia has a reasonable page on this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_(recording)

 

There is no D to A or A-D on the recording side.

 

[bobfa]

Direct from the "horses mouth" :

Jack Yamazaki. Tachyon Limited.

 

The SDTrans384 OS is coded in assembler.
All music playback is performed by the FPGA without going through the OS.
Therefore, it is not affected by OS interrupts.
The OS controls buttons such as PLAY and STOP, SD card recognition, LCD display, and other functions other than music playback.
When the PLAY button is pressed, the FPGA reads the signal from the SD card and outputs it to S/PDIF or HDMI independently.
The standard clock for the SDTrans384 was the NZ2520SD, but the current version uses the NZ2520SDA, which has even less phase noise (see attached figure).
The phase noise accuracy of the NZ2520SDA exceeds that of the Rubidium clock (FE-5680A).
The HDMI output of the SDTrans384 is not limited by S/PDIF and can output PCM or DSD signals without switching.
S/PDIF can only output PCM.
The HDMI output can output up to 32bit(int) 384kHz.

 

-----------------

I have heard one in my own system using S/PDIF and it is impressive.  The UX is "lean and mean"   I am waiting for mine to arrive!

 

This is kind of like going back to making your own mix tapes.  Curate what you want on the computer, write it to the SD card.  Play the SD card in the player!

 

I will also be playing with PGGB to upsample say CD quality to 24/192 and see how that sounds.

Guardians of the Galaxy Mix "Tape" here I come!

 

 

-----------------

 

 

 

Bob Fairbairn

 

[bobfa]

27 minutes ago, MaxBuck said:

Pretty much.  I'm not sure how one gets better zeroes and ones by spending more on an "audiophile" digital transport of any kind.

You might be VERY surprised VERY!  Spend some more time around here, go listen some more.  

 

You can watch some videos from:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA

 

and much more.

 

 

 

 

[MaxBuck]

7 minutes ago, bobfa said:

You might be VERY surprised VERY!  Spend some more time around here, go listen some more.  

 

You can watch some videos from:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCR4tuhqPppVp-PD0q17sPEA

 

and much more.

 

 

 

 

I would be as surprised by finding that one stream of zeroes and ones varies from another, mathematically identical stream, as I would to find that apples fall upward from the tree.  But I don't doubt that "experiments" can be designed to make some people think they do.

[bodiebill]

First impression of the Aune X5S 8th anniversary edition player and XC1 external clock after one week of use:

 

The X5S sounded good out of the box, but not yet top notch. The highs were not very smooth. A few days of break in however corrected that and now it really sounds like a pure transport, especially in combination with XC1, which makes a subtle -- but important for longer listening sessions -- difference. That means that I find it to come close to, or to be in the same league as, the SDTrans384 and my NUC+wtfplay. This is with the coax digital output which I prefer to the TosLink one.

 

I briefly tried its own DAC which is decent but no match for my ECdesigns PowerDAC-R or Musician Pegasus. No problem as that's not why I bought it :-)

 

However:

 

I am surprised that it the manual says said that the X5S 8th does DSD up to DSD256. In order to make place for the clock connection (going to the XC1), there is no longer an AES output and to my knowledge coax and TosLink outputs are limited to DSD64.

 

Another thing is that of the 8 usb disks (formatted as FAT32, sizes 32GB to 1TB) only 2 were read by the X5S, the largest of which is 120GB. The others result in "no device". Maybe I am I doing something wrong?

 

I have written to Aune re the last two points.

 

P S this answer from Aune (alas only to the last of my 2 questions) came in at the exact time I posted this:

Thanks for your time, it is Compatibility issues , please check: Whether the USB flash disk is partitioned and whether there is a hidden partition. For example, for a USB flash disk that has been used as a system disk, there is no way to have a hidden partition. Thanks for your time 

I am not sure I fully understand...

[bodiebill]

Disk problem solved!

[bobfa]

4 hours ago, bodiebill said:

First impression of the Aune X5S 8th anniversary edition player and XC1 external clock after one week of use

Good and interesting report. I have my MDP-2 in hand; it is not broken-in yet.  I am comparing it to my Aurender N100SC.  They are very close to each other.  I am giving the MDP-2 time to break-in.

 

My SDtrans384 is being shipped right now.

 

 

bob

 

 

 

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, bobfa said:

My SDtrans384 is being shipped right now.

 

And mine should arrive any day now at @gstew for surgery :-)

[gstew]

@bodiebill's SDTrans384 arrived about ten days ago. WOAH, some serious damage. I've started pulling the damaged parts and have made some promising progress, no guarantee yet, at it again this weekend.

 

@bobfa, thanks for the additional info on the SDTrans384. I was a mainframe assembler programmer/analyst in the 1970s through early 1990s, so appreciate the effort it took and also the efficiency gain over other programming options. Glad to hear that.

 

Like you, I am interested in using my SDTrans384 for PGGB upsampled playback. 384 will be good, but I'd really like to try it up at 768. Sadly the protocol used to copy data off the SD cards in the SDTrans384 is limited to 384 per the designer. What I haven't done so far is spend the time to research if there are other faster protocols available or if that is the max from an SDCard.

 

Greg in Mississippi

[bobfa]

I have my SDTrans384 directly connected to my speakers using S/PDIF so I am limited to 24/192.  With the Farad Super 3 supply feeding it DC, I have found really sweet spot of audio quality.   This is a really fun little journey.

[Soul Analogue]

I have been using the SDtrans384 for several years...it is a platform for me to tune and optimize my LPS design, as any change to each  psu rail will directly affect the voicing.... without the influence of OS/player software...

it is a reference for my building of EPYC music server...

in short, it well worths the money👍

 

[bobfa]

6 minutes ago, Soul Analogue said:

well worths the money👍

I have my SDTrans384 powered by a very good power supply.  The difference with that PS and upgraded Power Cord is very nice.  

 

 

[seeteeyou]

On 8/26/2021 at 11:05 AM, gstew said:

384 will be good, but I'd really like to try it up at 768.

 

Indeed, even something as humble as Chord Mojo turned out to sound fantastic at 768

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pggb-offline-remastering.958100/page-5#post-16535178

Quote

I can’t believe the performance this combo is providing. The wifi chip in Apple devices is top notch and I am able to get 768 streaming anywhere my wifi reaches. Even the sketchy service out by the pool. The Mojo is very impressive as well. I never used it much as the Poly is a strange duck and my dap was much more convenient. It’s not the level of my desktop rig with iem’s but very close.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62699-a-toast-to-pggb-a-heady-brew-of-math-and-magic/page/37/?tab=comments#comment-1153649

On 8/20/2021 at 12:50 AM, CNoblet said:

Having listened repeatedly to the files I upsampled with PGGB during the trial period, I concluded that I no longer wish to listen to the rest of my 2,000-plus digital albums without the benefit of PGGB.  The improvements it has made to digital music playback are many and extraordinary, as I listen at 32 bits/705.6-768 via Audirvana 3.5 thru the Chord Mojo DAC direct to a naim NAP160 power amplifier and Spendor/REL speakers.  No more playing around with audio settings, and no more EQ/convolution!  My only regret at the time of purchase is that this software wasn't available 10 years ago.  I haven't enjoyed listening so much since the days when I first discovered the music I would love.  Indeed, PGGB enables a voyage of musical rediscovery that I am only now beginning.  Thank you to ZB and the contributors to Audiophile Style who have promoted this software!

 

Not sure if Raspberry Pi 4B were able to support 1536 via GPIO / I²S or otherwise, though feeding its USB output to Musician Audio Pegasus (at 1536 a.k.a. 32fs) might have the potential to beat the daylight outta EC Designs PowerDAC-R

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62699-a-toast-to-pggb-a-heady-brew-of-math-and-magic/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1127088

Quote

And then comes the PGGB pre-upsampled 32fs files(using default settings) and all of a sudden the details of 32fs becomes so natural and the response of the orchestra is so unanimous yet you can hear the sounds of different members clearly and with good enough timbre. It seems that suddenly you can get to the best of both worlds. And that gave me the signal to go all the way for PCM. Now the PCM may still be a little more forward but the feeling are excellently conveyed. Everything is so fast so lively and so transparent. DSD would seem a little laid back and occasionally lacks liveliness.

 

Quote

Given the quiet background of 32fs one can always turn the volume higher and more details can be heard without feeling sound becoming harsh and too pressing. In general I believe the limit of turning the volume higher is mid range becoming harsh. In 32fs one can tune up the volume by 3dB or so and still not feeling any strain from the sound. That is probably taking advantage of the quiet background.

 

Someone already confirmed that wtfplay was working fine at 768

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/27123-wtfplay/page/20/?tab=comments#comment-1145357

 

Maybe @bodiebill could give 1536 a try with Pegasus? Though most SD Card Transports should max out at 384 while HXMelody HX500 / Gustard S16 / Aune S5 etc. would actually reach 768, though we do have a compelling reason to experiment with Raspberry Pi 4B / Compute Module 4 if our goal were going all the way up to 1536 FTW.

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

Maybe @bodiebill could give 1536 a try with Pegasus?

 

Can you send me a brief 1536 track?

[seeteeyou]

 

 

 

• WAV / FLAC up to 192 kHz
• DFF / DSF up to DSD128 (DoP / Native DSD)
• Coaxial S/PDIF output via RCA connector only

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=656771760136

 

No good for files processed by PGGB but the price is right.

[bodiebill]

Interesting! Alas the link does not work for me...

[seeteeyou]

At some point sellers on AliExpress would also carry that transport while the product description (in Chinese) could be viewed here, though it might be necessary to keep refreshing multiple times

 

https://www.cssbuy.com/item-656771760136.html

https://user.lovbuy.com/item.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitem.taobao.com%2Fitem.htm%3Fid%3D656771760136

 

Interesting comment on another forum

 

https://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93399#p93399

Quote

My current reference system uses the 3.75 reference SD Player with I2s tapped off the board, the on board clocks disabled with Andrea Morei latest clocks feeding the Player. It produces the best digital playback I have ever heard.

 

Pearse was talking about this predecessor from the same seller

 

https://www.cssbuy.com/item-601209239990.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001659417699.html

https://user.lovbuy.com/item.php?url=https%3A%2F%2Fitem.taobao.com%2Fitem.htm%3Fid%3D601209239990

 

BTW, that seller is working on a brand new DAC and it's gonna be able to accept the I²S outputs (via 4 separate SMA connectors as shown in the pictures above) of his latest SD card transport.

 

Though it might not be THAT easy to find quality cables terminated with SMA connectors on both ends, something like this would cost an arm and a leg

 

https://www.pasternack.com/sma-male-sma-male-rg214u-cable-assembly-pe3121lf-6-p.aspx

 

Maybe extremely short cables could be made with Klotz RG214-H and the right SMA connectors?

 

https://shop.klotz-ais.com/rg214-h-1.html