Researching SD Card Transports

[Norton]

Is there a particular reason why your question is framed specifically in terms of SD card transports only, as opposed to any minimalist device that offers file replay from locally  attached external storage, and which is navigable and operable without a network?

 

Is it because SD card is considered better then thumb drive for SQ?   Obviously SD cards were historically offered in larger capacities than USB sticks, but that advantage is offset by difficulty in navigating large capacity cards without some form of network interface. ( I find 256gb SD card just about navigable using the Mirus)

 

For example my Bryston BDP1 can be used precisely  as you suggest, as a file player in the manner of  a CD transport -  WAV, FLAC and DSD  from thumb drives, operated  without network via built in screen and front panel buttons or remote and outputs via AES and spdif.  But while it does sound good I’m not sure SQ would be considered SOTA these days and it is “just” a tailored Linux PC.

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

23 minutes ago, Norton said:

Is there any reason to focus specifically on SD card transports as opposed to any minimalist device that offers file replay from locally  attached external storage, and which is navigable and operable without a network?

 

Is it because SD card is considered better then thumb drive for SQ?   Obviously SD cards were historically offered in larger capacities than USB sticks, but that advantage is offset by difficulty in navigating large capacity cards without some form of network interface. ( I find 256gb SD card just about navigable using the Mirus)

 

For example my Bryston BDP can be used precisely  as you suggest, as a file player in the manner of  a CD transport -  WAV, FLAC and DSD  from thumb drives, operated  without network via built in screen and front panel buttons or remote and outputs via AES and spdif.  But while it does sound good I’m not sure SQ would be considered SOTA these days and it is “just” a tailored Linux PC.

 

 

 

The starting point of this thread was to ask whether there are similar devices to the SDTrans384. There are a number of specificities to the SDTrans384, and the fact that it uses SD cards is not really that relevant - I assume it could work with a local USB drive. The main difference with a Bryston BDP, for example, is that it implements a very low power micro-processor, and minimal memory usage, which probably limits the size of the filesystem used. The processor/memory requirements probably also limit the ability to implement more sophisticated navigation solutions, and the ability to decode other file formats (such as FLAC, DSD...). There are obviously other hardware differences as well, but that is one of them.

 

Whether all this makes a difference can be debated (plenty of threads on the SDTrans384 or the UPL, for example) but I just wanted to point out the specificities.

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

The starting point of this thread was to ask whether there are similar devices to the SDTrans384. There are a number of specificities to the SDTrans384, and the fact that it uses SD cards is not really that relevant - I assume it could work with a local USB drive. The main difference with a Bryston BDP, for example, is that it implements a very low power micro-processor, requiring minimal memory usage, which probably limits the size of the filesystem used. The processor/memory requirements probably also limit the ability to implement more sophisticated navigation solutions, and the ability to decode other file formats (such as FLAC, DSD...). There are obviously other hardware differences as well, but that is one of them.

 

Whether all this makes a difference, that remains to be seen, but I just wanted to point out the specificities.

 

Just as a sanity check (my own sanity that is): I found the SQ of the HXMelody HX500 very close to that of the SDTrans384 (the latter with upgraded clocks and dual high quality linear power). The HX500 is a device with (for me too) many bells and whistles. Hence I can imagine that great results can be achieved with a newer device somewhere between the SDTrans384 and HX500 in terms of footprint and user friendliness.

 

Good to see that this subject receives the kind of animated discussion it deserves!

 

My previous question about word clock connections may have snowed a bit under... Any advice on that?

[pm325]

SDtrans384 based on 8-bit C8051F316 (25MHz) micro-processor with ASM-firmware and could decode not only WAV, but DFF files also (up to dsd256).

All other SD-transports - ARM-based solutions by design.

[Miska]

45 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Whether or not these solutions bring something to the table, is not the issue here.

 

What is then?

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, Miska said:

 

What is then?

 

 

I (once again ?) did not express myself clearly. It is not the issue in the discussion you and I were having. Obviously, the OP is concerned about SQ.

[bodiebill]

7 minutes ago, pm325 said:

SDtrans384 based on 8-bit C8051F316 (25MHz) micro-processor with ASM-firmware and could decode not only WAV, but DFF files also (up to dsd256).

All other SD-transports - ARM-based solutions by design.

 

And I assume the same applies to all USB transports except

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/nl/blog/upl96etl

which is wav only up to 24/96.

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I (once again ?) did not express myself clearly. It is not the issue in the discussion you and I were having.

 

Is there an issue?

 

Quote

Obviously, the OP is concerned about SQ.

 

And you were talking about transparency, and related to sound quality are of course measurements. So just curious about demonstration about some assumed benefits of such device and differences between different implementation approaches (Linux vs some other software, etc).

 

Since you were talking about ALSA and such, I'm curious about substantiation of such assumptions.

 

[bodiebill]

Maybe @hopkins and @Miska you could take this offline as this is drifting away from the OP's focus?

 

Regarding OS´es, the Shinrico XRK SHD20 has two to choose from (button on the rear): Linux and Android. All confirm that Linux sounds better. Android of course has more options (such as touch screen).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/shinrico-xrk-mhd20-the-new-digital-transport-es9038pro-dac-will-come.872623/

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Is there an issue?

 

 

And you were talking about transparency, and related to sound quality are of course measurements. So just curious about demonstration about some assumed benefits of such device and differences between different implementation approaches (Linux vs some other software, etc).

 

Since you were talking about ALSA and such, I'm curious about substantiation of such assumptions.

 

 

No, I was talking about transparency of "vendors", not of sound !

I am not getting into an argument with you about:

a) what is more "minimalistic"

b) whether minimalism offers sonic benefits

c) measurements

I don't care ! Find someone else to pick a fight with today, thanks.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Agreed, @bodiebill, will stop replying here. 

[Miska]

2 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Regarding OS´es, the Shinrico XRK SHD20 has two to choose from (button on the rear): Linux and Android. All confirm that Linux sounds better. Android of course has more options (such as touch screen).

 

Interesting, because Android is based on Linux too. Just the software stack on top of Linux kernel is different (Java runtime, etc).

 

[bodiebill]

2 minutes ago, Miska said:

Interesting, because Android is based on Linux too. Just the software stack on top of Linux kernel is different (Java runtime, etc).

 

Not that I heard it myself (still looking for something more minimalist/cheaper than the SHD20), but maybe under Linux the SHD20 runs fewer processes? It is said that they aimed at increasing the market that way: Linux for the audiophiles and Android for the others.

[bodiebill]

Some devices (such as the SDTrans384 and Aune X5S) do not properly sort the folders/files on disk as seen in Windows or MacOS. An external program can be used to correct this before loading the disk. For me this is an indication of a further slimmed down OS and hence a good sign rather than a nuisance.

 

Note to myself -- candidates:

 

Musician MPD-2 €530
http://www.musician-audio.com/en/col.jsp?id=124
advantages: LVDS/HDMI I2S; wav 384, DSD256; good fit with Musician Pegasus or Aquarius DAC
possible disadvantages: no DC in; no word clock connection

 

Aune X5S 8th edition €260
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002965133813.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.816c2e0euCWAFd
advantages: wav 384, DSD512; DC in; "external clock input" (8th edition only, meant for use with Aune external clock) 
disadvantages: no AES or LVDS/HDMI I2S

possible disadvantage: shady brand, confusing information and hardly any user reviews available
possible disadvantage (sic): also has internal DAC

 

SD3.75 (AliExpress) €220
https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/4000196295448.html?spm=a2g0z.12057483.detail.3.66356ae9vX76EC
advantages: LVDS/HDMI I2S; wav 192, DSD128; 6-12 VDC in
possible advantage: "word clock out"
disadvantage: no AES

possible disadvantage: shady brand etc.

 

QA661 €620
http://www.qlshifi.com/en/wzcapi/qa661.htm
possible advantages: "word clock output"; not sure about the bridge function and external coaxial input ("QA661 has an external coaxial input port, which can be used for process the input signal and driving the output, thereby improving the sound quality") -- what would be a use case for these?
disadvantage: no LVDS/HDMI I2S; DSD64 only
possible disadvantage: no DC in

 

The word clock options are stil confusing to me. Advice welcome!

[bobfa]

When I heard the SDtrans384 I was very intrigued.  Enough so that I started looking around for one or an alternative.  What is GREAT here is that there are complexity’s that I had not through of.  We know that software/firmware make a difference, PS, clocks, etc are all in there.

 

In all of the experimenting, listening and such I was immediately taken in. Yes the UX is terrible but the SQ is amazing.  The folks over in PGGB land are experiencing some of the same things, moving data around, limited UI, etc.  All for the SQ!  I have been playing around there, also!

 

Here is what I see as a summary of this short thread so far.  Those with Direct Experience find the SDtrans384 amazing SQ, UX not amazing!   It is a limited resource.  I hope to hear if they are actually building another batch.  It appears so from the translated webpage.

 

There are virtually no reviews A/B whatever of most of the other SD transports that I have been able to find.  There is a lot of work going into RPi hardware and software.  I have not found a lot info that crosses boundaries yet.  Still reading and looking.  The HX500 appears to be a peer to the SDTrans384 that is available to purchase.

 

I have learned a lot so far.  The MPD-2 is also interesting.  

 

 

 

 

[bodiebill]

The Russians are much more active in this field. See f.i. the thread I mentioned above for the Shinrico XRK SHD20.

Or this one:

https://dastereo.ru/t/xrk-shinrico-shd20-transport-es9038-czap-annushka-uzhe-razlila-podsolnechnoe-maslo/14169/382

Most there agree that the SHD20 blows the respected Soundaware D100 Pro out of the water.

[bodiebill]

And regarding the SDTrans384:

I did communicate recently with Yamazaki san at Tachyon <[email protected]> and according to him they have them in stock now. Price is only $450-600 depending on options such as remote. Postage and import duties are steep. And ideally they should be put in some casing/box.

 

I own one (now broken) and loved the sound, but I would prefer a less vulnerable and somewhat more user friendly device. And given the very good sound I got out of a HX500 I am optimistic something can be found...

[bobfa]

49 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

And regarding the SDTrans384:

I did communicate recently with Yamazaki san at Tachyon <[email protected]> and according to him they have them in stock now. Price is only $450-600 depending on options such as remote. Postage and import duties are steep. And ideally they should be put in some casing/box.

 

I own one (now broken) and loved the sound, but I would prefer a less vulnerable and somewhat more user friendly device. And given the very good sound I got out of a HX500 I am optimistic something can be found...

This is all very exciting.    I am designing a case in my head for the SDtrans384…..    I like the look of both the HX500 and the MDP-2.    

 

So many things to think about.

 

 

[bobfa]

In Light of the research I am doing, I am going to try a couple of these players.  I just ordered and Aoshida MPD-2 as a first start.  I think I will get an SDTrans384 also.

 

There is a long way to go here!

 

bob

[bodiebill]

I ended up ordering Aune X5S 8th edition SD/USB transport + Aune XC1 10 MHz reference clock as I am intrigued by the clocking possibilities. I will start with using the XC1 to provide the clock for the X5S and the Mutec MC-3+ USB.

[bobfa]

2 hours ago, bodiebill said:

I ended up ordering Aune X5S 8th edition SD/USB transport + Aune XC1 10 MHz reference clock as I am intrigued by the clocking possibilities. I will start with using the XC1 to provide the clock for the X5S and the Mutec MC-3+ USB.

That is great.  I really wonder how good the Xc1 is.  Phase noise, etc...  Considering that the Mutec master clock is $4500 or so.

 

We will see how things go and compare notes.  I am still waiting for an email from Jack about the SDtrans384, on the fence right now.

[bodiebill]

3 minutes ago, bobfa said:

That is great.  I really wonder how good the Xc1 is.  Phase noise, etc...  Considering that the Mutec master clock is $4500 or so.

 

We will see how things go and compare notes.  I am still waiting for an email from Jack about the SDtrans384, on the fence right now.

 

Yes, let us compare notes when we get the devices. Entering another steep learning curve... :-)

 

Note that I got my SDTrans with special clocks.

It also allowed for two power supplies: 3.5V (I believe) to the clocks and 5V to the rest.

Send me a PM if you are interested.

[bobfa]

As sort of a side note to this.  What SD cards are folks using these days.  I have started searching for SLC cards.  I have a lot of SanDisk 8Gb cards from my Photography.

[seeteeyou]

Totally forgot to mention this, once in a while used ones would pop up here and there

 

https://tascam.com/us/product/da-3000/top

https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649754821-tascam-da-3000-2-channel-audio-recorder-adda-converter/

 

Is Tascam DA-3000 still good choice in 2020

https://gearspace.com/board/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/1320507-tascam-da-3000-still-good-choice-2020-a.html

 

Decware introduces new modified TEAC DSD Recorder

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/decware-introduces-new-modified-teac-dsd-recorder.409558/

[pm325]

Upl96etl:

Supports 44.1/16 to 96/24. Based on STM32 ARM.