Do I need clean USB power when using DAC with its own power supply?

[March Audio]

Just now, hopkins said:

 

This is wishful thinking on your part. 

Again with respect, your argument appears to boil down to "I dont beleive you" regardless of what evidence or information is provided.

 

Please go and have a search round the internet and take a look at the information regarding jitter audibility and the research papers that are out there.

[March Audio]

2 minutes ago, Rexp said:

You still don't get it, there are no measurements that correlate with the listening experience. You science guys have failed to develop the appropriate tech. 

Sorry its you thats not understanding.  There are subjective listening tests that correlate jitter levels with audibility.  That isnt measurement, that subjective listening.  Its a correlation of cause and effect.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

Its actually very simple.  You add known quantities of jitter into a system and see at what points listeners find it audible.  The levels are surprisingly high compared to what most DACs achieve these days.

 

That does not give us an indication as to how an accurate DAC would sound like. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

7 minutes ago, March Audio said:

Again with respect, your argument appears to boil down to "I dont beleive you" regardless of what evidence or information is provided.

 

Please go and have a search round the internet and take a look at the information regarding jitter audibility and the research papers that are out there.

 

It then seems that even the "experts" don't agree... 

 

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/is-jitter-audible.3235/

[Rexp]

4 minutes ago, March Audio said:

Sorry its you thats not understanding.  There are subjective listening tests that correlate jitter levels with audibility.  That isnt measurement, that subjective listening.  Its a correlation of cause and effect.

Is jitter the topic now? Sorry, missed that. 

[opus101]

4 hours ago, audiobomber said:

If I were looking for a measurement to correlate with PRaT, the first place I would look is transient performance. How closely does the DUT follow transient swings, i.e. attack sustain decay release? 

 

If I were looking for a measurement to correlate with PRaT I'd be looking in the realm of noise and noise modulation. I have a Xindak amp which I modified the power supplies of and it greatly improved the PRaT - I figured noise on the supply lines (which may well have been signal-modulated) wasn't being rejected sufficiently by the opamp front-end of this amp in stock form.

[kumakuma]

32 minutes ago, Rexp said:

You science guys have failed to develop the appropriate tech. 

 

Sorry, we've been too busy rigging elections and creating fake vaccines.

 

[March Audio]

44 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

That does not give us an indication as to how an accurate DAC would sound like. 

No, but that wasnt the point.  It was about one of the problems you cited as being an audible issue, specifically jitter.

[March Audio]

40 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

It then seems that even the "experts" don't agree... 

 

https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/is-jitter-audible.3235/

I don't see what the disagreement is, it is just stating that the audibility of jitter is dependant upon its nature (frequency etc).  All very well known and understood.

[opus101]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

I don't see what the disagreement is, it is just stating that the audibility of jitter is dependant upon its nature (frequency etc).  All very well known and understood.

 

Audibility of jitter is also dependent on DAC architecture (noise-shaping etc.) but I don't see that stated in many places.

[March Audio]

13 minutes ago, opus101 said:

 

Audibility of jitter is also dependent on DAC architecture (noise-shaping etc.) but I don't see that stated in many places.

 

Even if it is, the source in itself is irrelevant to the audibility. It's the nature and level of jitter that counts

 

All of this is very well researched and documented.

[fas42]

Interestingly, one of the very few systems that stood out as "getting the sound right" at the last hifi show I went to used a CH Precision CD player ... 😉.

 

The discussion here is like the situation where the owner of a new car enters a battle with the servicing department of the dealership: "There's a problem with my car; it doesn't drive properly!" ... "Well, we've checked everything, taken it for drives - and it seems fine to us". Either the owner gets fed up, and ditches the vehicle, as soon as he can - or if he's lucky, enough people experience similar issues, and the combined weight of their protesting finally pushes the manufacturer over into admitting that there's a problem. In audio, this never really happens - and so the irritating lack of proper resolution of deficiencies, etc, just continues.

[opus101]

2 minutes ago, March Audio said:

 

Even if it is, the source in itself is irrelevant to the audibility. 

 

You have some doubt that architecture matters to jitter audibility?

[March Audio]

39 minutes ago, opus101 said:

 

You have some doubt that architecture matters to jitter audibility?

No, I was differentiating between audibility and the fundamental cause for the jitter.  The fundamental cause is not relevant to audibility, the nature and level of the jitter is.  You were conflating the two.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Seems like this discussion should be split into two. One in the subjective main part of the forum and the other in the Objective-Fi section. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Some people just can't help themselves. I can count on one hand the number of threads @March Audio has entered that haven't turned into a pissing match. 

[March Audio]

9 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Seems like this discussion should be split into two. One in the subjective main part of the forum and the other in the Objective-Fi section. 

Possibly, but note that in this specific example of jitter the evaluation of audibility is very much based upon subjective listening tests.

 

Im not sure where that leaves us if people wont believe measurements and subjective listening tests.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

Im not sure where that leaves us if people wont believe measurements and subjective listening tests.

Who is "us" and why do you care so much?

[opus101]

7 minutes ago, March Audio said:

No, I was differentiating between audibility and the fundamental cause for the jitter.  The fundamental cause is not relevant to audibility, the nature and level of the jitter is.  You were conflating the two.

 

Your last sentence is nonsense.

 

Seeing as your answer to my earlier question is 'no' then with those studies into jitter audibility you've been waving your hand towards, did any of the authors mention the architecture of the DAC they were listening to? And if so, what kinds have been used in those audibility tests?

[March Audio]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

Some people just can't help themselves. I can count on one hadn't the number of threads @March Audio has entered that haven't turned into a pissing match. 

Sorry Chris but that implication is offensive.  Stop blaming me for the reaction of others.  Everything I have said in this thread is backed up with scientific evidence.  If others want to believe in fairies fine, but lets not make me out to be the bad guy.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Perhaps people need a refresher on this topic of objective and subjective posts. 

 

 

[March Audio]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Who is "us" and why do you care so much?

All of us.  

 

If some want to only hear or allow one side of the story then thats a sorry state of affairs.

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

Sorry Chris but that implication is offensive.  Stop blaming me for the reaction of others.  Everything I have said in this thread is backed up with scientific evidence.  If others want to believe in fairies fine, but lets not make me out to be the bad guy.

You're a perpetual line stepper. You know the rules of the forum, yet constantly step on the line. 

 

It doesn't matter if everything you said was true, people come here to enjoy this hobby and you continually challenge people just trying to have fun. That's why we have the objective sub-forum. Your crusade to save people from themselves and right every wrong in audio is what's offensive and not a good look for you or your company. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

If some want to only hear or allow one side of the story then thats a sorry state of affairs.

People want to enjoy their free time without being pestered by you. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, March Audio said:

All of us.  

 

If some want to only hear or allow one side of the story then thats a sorry state of affairs.

Have at it in the objective forum. You know this. Don't pretend it's censorship.