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Best way to feed a Gungnir Multibit Gen V, for $450 or less


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I would like to upgrade the streamer feeding my Schiit  Gungnir MB Gen V.

The current streamer is a RPi 3 running Ropieee, powered by a Jameco LPS, feeding the USB input on the DAC.

It sounds quite decent, but I think the DAC is capable of more if fed a better signal. 

I'm looking for the best sonic upgrade at $450 or less, including power supply.

 

 

Options under consideration are:

  • Allo Digione Signature feeding the BNC input
  • Allo USBridge Signature feeding the USB input
  • PI2AES feeding the BNC input
  • Sonore Microrendu feeding the USB input
  • Other?

 

I would anticipate powering with an Allo Nirvana, but am open to all suggestions.

Thanks!

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The NAA only works with HQPlayer. I don't think you're going to get any better sound quality using Roon software at both ends. I tried Ropieee XL and while convenient and with NAA functionality, the plain and basic NAA image from Miska sounds far better than the same image integrated into Ropieee. But it comes with the requirement of also having HQPlayer as it only works with that software.

 

I am not a fan of Roon's sound quality by itself, I find it acceptable when used with HQPlayer, and even better when not using Roon at all.

 

edit: try a trial of HQPlayer and the NAA image on your Pi3 and see if you like the sound quality increase. A license for HQPlayer is less than your budgeted amount.

No electron left behind.

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I wouldn't use any of these.  Allo Nirvana is not that great, I also didn't like the Shanti either.

 

At this level I'd get a bluesound node, a second hand Auralic Aries Femto (probably the one I'd go for) or eRedDock if you like DIY. Also check out the stuff by limetree audio, Google chromecast dongle is also said to be good, a second hand Cambridge audio streamer, NUC with Audirvana and the link streamer from stack audio.

 

The first two options (bluesound and auralic) can easily be sold on at very little financial lost if you choose to upgrade again.

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Thanks for these thoughts. To clarify, I'm looking for a Roon compatible solution as I'm happy with Roon as a server. I will test drive HQPlayer and NAA on the Pi3!

 

Appreciate any additional thoughts on hardware.... How does Bluesound node compare with the Allo devices, Microrendu, and Pi2AES?

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Bluesound Node wins hugely in terms of ease of use and interface.  A second hand Auralic Aries Femto should sound better though and offers similar benefits.  

 

I used to have the Yggy - these streamers are all of sufficient quality.

 

With the Pi based ones there is of course more tweaking to get the sound quality you like - software can make a big difference.

 

Roon never really sounded that great, but with a Gungnir Multibit you're unlikely to notice significant differences in source quality.

 

In other words, these are appropriate suggestions given the budget and grade of DAC - I wouldn't worry too much beyond this.  The functionality and robustness of the product is probably more important.

 

If you want something that will grow with you as you move to better grades of DAC then an Intel NUC, or even a PC in a fanless chassis is a good bet.  Put Euphony, or better yet Gentoo Player on it and you will be impressed.  Add linear power etc... later.  I think you can also get a version of Ropiee to run on x64.  All depends if you want to tinker or not.  It took me ages to have a DIY system that equalled a commercially available one though, so be warned of the time commitment.  But it is fun and I like learning.

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I own and use a Pi 3B+ and sMS-200 (with LPS). My internet research prior to purchasing the sMS suggested a hierachy like this, worst to best:

RPi

Allo USBridge

Sonore microRendu

SOtM sMS-200

 

The sMS functions as a Roon end-point, comes with a switching power supply, meets your price, upgradeable.

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/sms-200/

 

You can do the Neo upgrade yourself for $2.00 if you can solder at all. Linear power supplies improve the performance. Future-proof; you can go hard and add the tX-USB, after which it will beat the sMS-200Ultra (according to SOtM), and even an external clock.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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14 hours ago, p-cubed said:

I would like to upgrade the streamer feeding my Schiit  Gungnir MB Gen V.

The current streamer is a RPi 3 running Ropieee, powered by a Jameco LPS, feeding the USB input on the DAC.

It sounds quite decent, but I think the DAC is capable of more if fed a better signal. 

I'm looking for the best sonic upgrade at $450 or less, including power supply.

 

 

Options under consideration are:

  • Allo Digione Signature feeding the BNC input
  • Allo USBridge Signature feeding the USB input
  • PI2AES feeding the BNC input
  • Sonore Microrendu feeding the USB input
  • Other?

 

I would anticipate powering with an Allo Nirvana, but am open to all suggestions.

Thanks!

The USB input for MB Gungnir is mediocre, I lost patience and sold mine after the Unison upgrade came out.  Buy this if you want to keep the Gungnir and

make the Pi  sound better. Ive used the one I have with both Metrum Octave, Chord Mojo and a Denafrips Ares connected via coax/toslink. Should sharpen

up your transients,dynamics, improve bass impact and eliminate the USB noise susceptibility issues I found with both Eitr and Unison.

 

https://www.denafrips.com/iris

 

 

 

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

The USB input for MB Gungnir is mediocre, I lost patience and sold mine after the Unison upgrade came out.  Buy this if you want to keep the Gungnir and

make the Pi  sound better. Ive used the one I have with both Metrum Octave, Chord Mojo and a Denafrips Ares connected via coax/toslink. Should sharpen

up your transients,dynamics, improve bass impact and eliminate the USB noise susceptibility issues I found with both Eitr and Unison.

 

https://www.denafrips.com/iris

 

 

 

BTW  I have read good things about the Pi2AES vs Denafrips DDC... if you can get any member validation from this site it might be a great choice but for the moment

I'm classifying it as a UFO due to lack of corroboration.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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4 hours ago, p-cubed said:

Thanks for these thoughts. To clarify, I'm looking for a Roon compatible solution as I'm happy with Roon as a server. I will test drive HQPlayer and NAA on the Pi3!

 

Appreciate any additional thoughts on hardware.... How does Bluesound node compare with the Allo devices, Microrendu, and Pi2AES?

 

You can still use Roon with HQPlayer. Roon does what it does best, and HQPlayer does the playback. Perhaps I didn't make that clear.

 

Screen Shot 2021-06-24 at 2.41.38 PM.png

No electron left behind.

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1 minute ago, davide256 said:

Agree with what you are saying about Roon and HQPlayer as output. But HQPlayer license is $250-ish… wouldn’t the OP also need at least an i3 server?

 

I did assume that whatever he is running Roon on could also run HQP, but I didn't see what device that is in the OP. Did I miss it?

No electron left behind.

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2 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Not named so a question mark…

 

Yes. Good catch though. If he's running a Gungnir he's not going to upsample beyond 24/192 which doesn't take much HP at all. I have two Roon/HQPservers and the lower powered one is a 2011 Mini with an i5, now running Linux and it runs Roon and HQP just fine into the Yggy.

No electron left behind.

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Thanks everyone for this excellent discussion. My Windows Roon server should be beefy enough to handle HQP, and if not it will give me an excuse to upgrade that machine. It currently runs Roon Server with modest DSP (upsample 2x, 4 bands of parametric EQ) at around 15-20x.

 

On hardware, at this point I'm leaning toward either Pi2AES, or SoTM-200 Neo. One of course is a SPDIF solution and the other is USB. Thinking about future DAC upgrades, is the DAC world moving to USB, or will SPDIF remain a strong player?

I know that is a speculative question, but this is a knowledgeable bunch, and any speculation appreciated.

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The future is USB for sure, due to technical superiority over S/PDIF, specifically separate clocking, higher resolution capability. All DAC's had S/PDIF a decade ago, only a rare few had USB. Now all have USB and many have only USB. Even Schiit, who were an S/PDIF holdout, have agreed that USB done right sounds better.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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Another option would be to sell your Gungnir and use the proceeds to get a new Gungnir Multibit with the Unison USB input. Couple that with a Pi4 and HQP/Roon and I bet you would be pretty happy.

 

Why the Pi4? Because the USB and Ethernet are not using the same bus and therefore bandwidth. 

 

That can also be done in stages.

No electron left behind.

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14 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Another option would be to sell your Gungnir and use the proceeds to get a new Gungnir Multibit with the Unison USB input. Couple that with a Pi4 and HQP/Roon and I bet you would be pretty happy.

 

Why the Pi4? Because the USB and Ethernet are not using the same bus and therefore bandwidth. 

Have you compared an earlier Pi with the Pi 4? I ask because Hans B claims the 4B doesn't sound as good as the 3B+. Some say the opposite. What that says to me is that they are probably pretty similar. 

 

I never use the USB 5V power from my 3B+, it is awful. I power the DAC separately, either through its own power supply (e.g. Modi and Modius), or an iFi Defender/iPower, or a dual head USB cable with separate power supply. Using ethernet instead of wi-fi also helps provide a cleaner output.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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14 hours ago, p-cubed said:

Is Unison a meaningful upgrade over the  Gen V USB?

 

I don't have experience with a direct comparison, but the signal coming out of my Yggy appears to be much cleaner than the signal coming out of my Modi Multibit, as much as I think the Modi is a great device. I have never seen anyone say a bad word about the upgrade from a Yggy before Unison to after Unison either.

 

1 hour ago, audiobomber said:

Have you compared an earlier Pi with the Pi 4? I ask because Hans B claims the 4B doesn't sound as good as the 3B+. Some say the opposite. What that says to me is that they are probably pretty similar. 

 

I never use the USB 5V power from my 3B+, it is awful. I power the DAC separately, either through its own power supply (e.g. Modi and Modius), or an iFi Defender/iPower, or a dual head USB cable with separate power supply. Using ethernet instead of wi-fi also helps provide a cleaner output.

 

I have not, and I have not seen that opinion before.

No electron left behind.

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5 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

I have not, and I have not seen that opinion before.

The opinion is not unique. One of the comments below the Hans B video found the same thing. HiFiBerry says no advantage to go to the Pi4:

 

Q: Should I upgrade my Pi2 or Pi3?
A: If you’re using the Pi for music playback, there is no need to upgrade. We still know people using the first Raspberry Pi board that has been released 7 years ago. Music playback doesn’t require a lot of CPU power and/or bandwidth. Therefore, the music playback experience won’t be better with a newer Pi. Even older systems are powerful enough! If you still have a Pi1 or 2, use them. One advantage these systems have is the lower power consumption.

https://www.hifiberry.com/blog/the-raspberry-pi-4/

 

This blogger and computer engineer prefers the Pi3B:

We listened using the RPi3, then shut it down and booted up the RPi4, listening to the same material.

Much to our surprise, we actually preferred the sound of the RPi3!

The RPi4’s presentation had something of a “fatiguing” effect. The sound was a bit more “coarse” that that of the RPi3.

We are not talking about big differences here, but they were there. Note that my system is pretty resolving, every change to any component is audible, so YMMV.

http://www.dimdim.gr/2019/07/the-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-game-changer-for-audio/

 

My opinion remains, the 4 and the earlier versions are different but similar. They're all Raspberries, best used in less revealing systems.

 

On a side note, most everyone here with an sMS-200 uses the 100BASE-T, not 1000BASE-T. Faster processing speed is not necessarily consonant with better SQ.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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5 hours ago, audiobomber said:

The opinion is not unique. One of the comments below the Hans B video found the same thing. HiFiBerry says no advantage to go to the Pi4:

 

Q: Should I upgrade my Pi2 or Pi3?
A: If you’re using the Pi for music playback, there is no need to upgrade. We still know people using the first Raspberry Pi board that has been released 7 years ago. Music playback doesn’t require a lot of CPU power and/or bandwidth. Therefore, the music playback experience won’t be better with a newer Pi. Even older systems are powerful enough! If you still have a Pi1 or 2, use them. One advantage these systems have is the lower power consumption.

https://www.hifiberry.com/blog/the-raspberry-pi-4/

 

This blogger and computer engineer prefers the Pi3B:

We listened using the RPi3, then shut it down and booted up the RPi4, listening to the same material.

Much to our surprise, we actually preferred the sound of the RPi3!

The RPi4’s presentation had something of a “fatiguing” effect. The sound was a bit more “coarse” that that of the RPi3.

We are not talking about big differences here, but they were there. Note that my system is pretty resolving, every change to any component is audible, so YMMV.

http://www.dimdim.gr/2019/07/the-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-game-changer-for-audio/

 

My opinion remains, the 4 and the earlier versions are different but similar. They're all Raspberries, best used in less revealing systems.

 

On a side note, most everyone here with an sMS-200 uses the 100BASE-T, not 1000BASE-T. Faster processing speed is not necessarily consonant with better SQ.

 

I swear I read someplace that at high rates the older Pis can stutter due to the shared bandwidth between the ethernet and USB, and the Pi4 solves that by separating those two out into two independent circuits. If I read it anywhere it was probably here on this site in one of the HQPlayer threads.

 

That said, if that's not a problem now then I see no reason to upgrade if its not also accompanied by a higher rate capable DAC than the Gungnir. It wouldn't be the first time I found something that shouldn't be, but is.

No electron left behind.

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56 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

I swear I read someplace that at high rates the older Pis can stutter due to the shared bandwidth between the ethernet and USB, and the Pi4 solves that by separating those two out into two independent circuits. If I read it anywhere it was probably here on this site in one of the HQPlayer threads.

I can believe that. My Pi 3B+ does not stutter, but it is configured to reproduce the original bits, no oversampling.

Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. 

Crown XLi 1500 powering  AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers

Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. 

 

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