PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just now, PeterSt said: OffTopic: How does the RME actually sound through your ears ? Maybe this is not fully OffTopic, as I realise that I only need to hook up my own and apply all the stuff I normally apply in order to see (hear) what happens. And, If I could describe SQ changes, would you be prepared to believe that (say initially) ? Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, March Audio said: However I also used planes deltawave software to look at the time domain at sample level. How would that work ? Nobody is changing the time domain. So IMO this can only about jitter and DeltaWave does not deal with that, does it ? I think it does deal with drift, but that is something else. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, PeterSt said: I have been thinking about the virtues of this, given by the fact that I could possibly do all myself just the same. So I only now checked and see what could be happening. Thus: The DAC and the ADC is one and the same box, Yes ? Anyway, you said yesterday that this thread "was a waste of time" and "you were done with it". What changed? Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 minutes ago, PeterSt said: How would that work ? Nobody is changing the time domain. So IMO this can only about jitter and DeltaWave does not deal with that, does it ? I think it does deal with drift, but that is something else. Seriously? Time domain isn't just about jitter. The point was that FFTs don't see quickly changing signals. Hence the use of deltawave to make comparisons in the time domain. Again mo significant difference was found between the PC at idle and full load. botrytis 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 5 minutes ago, PeterSt said: How would that work ? Nobody is changing the time domain. So IMO this can only about jitter and DeltaWave does not deal with that, does it ? I think it does deal with drift, but that is something else. Are you under the impression that noise won't be seen in the time domain? botrytis 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 Anyway more data from different dacs and PCs coming soon. botrytis 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 23 minutes ago, PeterSt said: How would that work ? Nobody is changing the time domain. So IMO this can only about jitter and DeltaWave does not deal with that, does it ? I think it does deal with drift, but that is something else. A thought experiment, Peter: can you change frequency domain without changing the time domain? Mathematically speaking. March Audio and botrytis 2 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 32 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: A thought experiment, Peter: can you change frequency domain without changing the time domain? Mathematically speaking. Nope. Could you stop trying to be funny ? Thanks. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
manueljenkin Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 37 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: A thought experiment, Peter: can you change frequency domain without changing the time domain? Mathematically speaking. I like your humour, but I feel you have less idea of windowing functions. There's a reason why wavelet transforms exist. Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 55 minutes ago, March Audio said: Seriously? Time domain isn't just about jitter. Yes, seriously. I was suggesting that nothing in the time domain changes. So what would be changing in DeltaWave then ? (your idea, not mine). Let's regard this a misunderstanding. I am fine with that. Still I would not use something like DeltaWave, because I would not be looking for noise (I am counting the number of times saying this). Never mind. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, March Audio said: Are you under the impression that noise won't be seen in the time domain? To be more clear: yes, we would see that. But no changes whatsoever in this regard. Maybe recall that I can't see measurable differences myself, OK ? thanks. And it is not about noise (still counting). Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, March Audio said: Anyway, you said yesterday that this thread "was a waste of time" and "you were done with it". What changed? Well, the fact that your looped-back RME-RME is something I could do myself without any other variables than the PC. Not that I'd expect a different result from your tests, but it would free you from things I just could do myself. Quote OffTopic: How does the RME actually sound through your ears ? Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Yes, seriously. I was suggesting that nothing in the time domain changes. So what would be changing in DeltaWave then ? (your idea, not mine). Let's regard this a misunderstanding. I am fine with that. Still I would not use something like DeltaWave, because I would not be looking for noise (I am counting the number of times saying this). Never mind. Then how on earth are you hearing changes in sound quality? Seriously botrytis 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 29 minutes ago, PeterSt said: To be more clear: yes, we would see that. But no changes whatsoever in this regard. Maybe recall that I can't see measurable differences myself, OK ? thanks. And it is not about noise (still counting). So what is it about? BTW I was looking for differences between the frequency and tome domain of the unloaded and loaded PC. That could be noise, spurious signals or jitter. botrytis 1 Link to comment
Popular Post March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 30 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Well, the fact that your looped-back RME-RME is something I could do myself without any other variables than the PC. Not that I'd expect a different result from your tests, but it would free you from things I just could do myself. I'm not just doing looped back rme. It sounds just fine. Is this where you say it sounds crap, like ssds sound crap or any software that doesn't use tweaks 😉 botrytis and opus101 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just to say I have moderated some nonsense sense posts. botrytis and opus101 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post opus101 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 Just now, March Audio said: Just to say I have moderated some nonsense sense posts. But you missed this one! manueljenkin, Summit, March Audio and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment
manueljenkin Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 50 minutes ago, March Audio said: Then how on earth are you hearing changes in sound quality? Seriously <delete> Link to comment
PeterSt Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, March Audio said: 1 hour ago, PeterSt said: To be more clear: yes, we would see that. But no changes whatsoever in this regard. Maybe recall that I can't see measurable differences myself, OK ? thanks. And it is not about noise (still counting). So what is it about? BTW I was looking for differences between the frequency and tome domain of the unloaded and loaded PC. That could be noise, spurious signals or jitter. I already told you - it should be about jitter. But a. the differences I saw myself were waved away by you because the averaging was not ready (duh); b. you were fast to quote Julian Dunn with his 20ns whatever jitter "so that can't be it". Ad b.: Which now is your statement. If you ask in a week of time the same question ("so what is it about") I will give the same answer. Over and over if needed. Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, PeterSt said: Nope. Could you stop trying to be funny ? Thanks. Was that funny? I can’t help the reactions from others. I had an exact quote from you saying the opposite. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Summit said: You mean censorship because I show how subjektiv all your claims are. Mo you weren't making any sense and just trying to disrupt the thread Summit 1 Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 54 minutes ago, PeterSt said: I already told you - it should be about jitter. But a. the differences I saw myself were waved away by you because the averaging was not ready (duh); b. you were fast to quote Julian Dunn with his 20ns whatever jitter "so that can't be it". Ad b.: Which now is your statement. If you ask in a week of time the same question ("so what is it about") I will give the same answer. Over and over if needed. I'm sorry Peter but you have just demonstrated how little you understand about the subject. Jitter dies not get averaged away in FFTs. It appears as sidebands, widening of the base of the tone or if it's really wide band a raising of the noise floor. I demonstrated there was no increase in jitter. botrytis 1 Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted June 12, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, PeterSt said: Yes, seriously. I was suggesting that nothing in the time domain changes. So what would be changing in DeltaWave then ? (your idea, not mine). Let's regard this a misunderstanding. I am fine with that. Still I would not use something like DeltaWave, because I would not be looking for noise (I am counting the number of times saying this). Never mind. Seriously, Peter. Jitter is measurable in time domain. In fact, DeltaWave computes it for each individual sample in the file and the overall RMS value in the time domain. And, to be clear, time domain contains all the same impurities, distortions, noise, jitter, whatever else you want to call it, that the frequency domain does. There is no difference. Whatever exists in one, exists in the other. botrytis and March Audio 2 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 2 hours ago, manueljenkin said: I like your humour, but I feel you have less idea of windowing functions. There's a reason why wavelet transforms exist. That's not the reason wavelet transform exists, but this has nothing to do with what's being discussed. -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
March Audio Posted June 12, 2021 Author Share Posted June 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, pkane2001 said: Seriously, Peter. Jitter is measurable in time domain. In fact, DeltaWave computes it for each individual sample in the file and the overall RMS value in the time domain. And, to be clear, time domain contains all the same impurities, distortions, noise, jitter, whatever else you want to call it, that the frequency domain does. There is no difference. Whatever exists in one, exists in the other. So Peter thinks nothing changes in the time domain and yet all this is about jitter - a time domain issue. He also doesn't accept the scientific research on the audibility of jitter and levels required which are quite high by the standards achieved in dacs these days. He doesn't accept the demonstration of jitter not changing with PC load. And yet we are supposed to believe his "I hear it therefore it is" claims. botrytis 1 Link to comment
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