Article: Apple Music's Lossless and Hi-Res Mess

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, cab33 said:

And you know - for a fact - that Apple does nothing to the files either???

Please be more specific. 
 

I know for a fact Apple does nothing to some files, I can’t guarantee all files, based on testing. 

[MikeyFresh]

30 minutes ago, MikeyFresh said:

Same here, though in "working" it is only just enabled, and while you do then need to select an external DAC for output in BitPerfect's Settings (otherwise the sound comes from the Mac's internal speaker), that's where the compatibility seems to end. Unlike with iTunes, BitPerfect cannot override the Audio MIDI Setting for sample rate as it does with iTunes.

 

I sent Richard Murison a note hoping he might be willing/able to push an update that would restore this feature of BitPerfect for use with Apple Music.

Interesting, I will have to test again when I get home.

 

In my initial test, the sample rate indicator on my DAC did not change despite the fact I was playing tracks from albums with different sample rates.

 

I also noticed in clicking the Toolbar icon for BitPerfect that it did not display anything where it would normally indicate what sample rate was being played, almost as if it didn't actually think anything was playing at all.

[Marco Klobas]

Just to be clear: I’m talking about local files, not Apple Music subscription.

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, Marco Klobas said:

Just to be clear: I’m talking about local files, not Apple Music subscription.

Ahhh, I misunderstood, I was testing the cloud subscription files and with those BitPerfect does not change the sample rate.

[wklie]

@The Computer Audiophile In another forum there was a test of USB output of Apple Music Fairytales MQA CD  getting a MQA light initially but then turned off (somewhat similar to your HDCD results), but I have no problem with MQA light on an external USB MQA DAC staying on via AirPlay1 to Lumin USB output.

 

Could you retest HDCD using iOS 14.6 AirPlay1 to any streamer or Pi running the open source shairport-sync, which I checked that it accepts ALAC (and PCM only), not AAC.  Then USB output to your HDCD DAC.

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, wklie said:

@The Computer Audiophile In another forum there was a test of USB output of Apple Music Fairytales MQA CD  getting a MQA light initially but then turned off (somewhat similar to your HDCD results), but I have no problem with MQA light staying on via AirPlay1.

 

Could you retest HDCD using iOS 14.6 AirPlay1 to any streamer or Pi running the open source shairport-sync, which I checked that it accepts ALAC (and PCM only), not AAC.  Then USB output to your HDCD DAC.

Absolutely. Will take me until next week as I’m traveling right now. 

[jjdnyc]

Separate but related issue: I am unable to get my 5K iMac to resolve at the highest bit rate and resolutions no matter what I do with Apple Music. For whatever reason the higher rates are not options under audio midi set up. Anyone have nay bright ideas? Apple says my iMac is capable of 24/192. I am going Toslnk into some Audi Engine HD6 speakers that are also supposed to be 24/192 capable. 

 

 

And, more on  point to this thread, I am finding that certain tracks within the same album are available in lossless while others are not. See attached screenshots. I think the technical term for this implementation is "a hot mess”.  

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, jjdnyc said:

Separate but related issue: I am unable to get my 5K iMac to resolve at the highest bit rate and resolutions no matter what I do with Apple Music. For whatever reason the higher rates are not options under audio midi set up. Anyone have nay bright ideas? Apple says my iMac is capable of 24/192. I am going Toslnk into some Audi Engine HD6 speakers that are also supposed to be 24/192 capable. 

 

 

And, more on  point to this thread, I am finding that certain tracks within the same album are available in lossless while others are not. See attached screenshots. I think the technical term for this implementation is "a hot mess”.  

 

 

I believe macOS limits optical output to 24/96. 

[wklie]

I assume everyone but me knows this already, I just discovered that "Sound Check" setting means volume leveling that would destroy bit perfect delivery.

 

For anyone who wants to repeat the bit perfect tests, please disable Sound Check, EQ, and Dolby Atmos.  Enable Do Not Disturb.  Set Volume to Max.  On Mac, the output sample rate needs to be set manually.

 

If there are any other settings that would destroy bit perfect delivery, please let me know.  I recall a customer used an audio switching software on Mac that he thought was merely routing audio signals, but it actually destroyed the bit perfect delivery too.

[Marco Klobas]

6 hours ago, MikeyFresh said:

Ahhh, I misunderstood, I was testing the cloud subscription files and with those BitPerfect does not change the sample rate.

 

You're correct, unfortunately BitPerfect can't interact with streaming content.

[jjdnyc]

Adding to my earlier post, here is a strange discovery. As others have found, I lose the lossless icon in Apple Music (AM) on iOS when I stream over Airplay 2 to my 4K ATV (and we know it only streams at 256 kbps). But, I managed to recover the lossless icon in AM by streaming (lossless) from Amazon Music and then switching back to AM where the lossless icon reappears and remains in place when I then stream from AM (and I am fairly certain it is actually streaming lossless - soundstage and clarity are better). It’s almost as though I have tricked AM into streaming lossless. And yes I am then getting the “iPhone arrow” indication in this case.

 

Separately, does anyone know whether the ATV will stream lossless when using the native Apple Music app on the ATV? There doesn’t appear to be anyway to tell what it is doing. 

[carlo]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/63174-article-apple-musics-lossless-and-hi-res-mess/?do=findComment&comment=1141947

 

Hello everybody,

I just wanted to share with you the tests carried out and present in the shairport-sync forum waiting for Chris to update us on his tests

 

https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync/issues/1205#issuecomment-859679508

 

I report below what the author of the tests said in response to my initial question:

 

"My tests results were as described. I can certainly tell shairport-sync delivers lossless CD quality (16 / 44.1k) to a DAC.
Strictly speaking, streaming Apple Music Lossless over network to shairport-sync is not a lossless process. Let's imagine the chain:
Apple lossless files may be in 24 bit 48kHz format. Before sending it over network, Apple Music app has to dither it down to 16 bit and resample to 44.1kHz because that's the limit for AirPlay 1 ALAC streaming - that is a lossy process. In case of 16 bit / 44.1kHz lossless files this process obviously doesn't have to happen. In case of 24 / 44.1kHz only dithering is required. Encoded again into ALAC it is streamed over network to shairport-sync, which employs "stuffing" process, adding or removing frames in order to keep in sync is a lossy process. But it's just dropping or adding frames, compared to AAC's MDCT it's nothing. "

 

At this point, it is necessary to understand if the problem of the frames is only of shairport-sync or even of official Apple AirPlay.

[wklie]

29 minutes ago, jjdnyc said:

does anyone know whether the ATV will stream lossless when using the native Apple Music app on the ATV? There doesn’t appear to be anyway to tell what it is doing. 

Does it have a lossless or HiRes lossless setting?  Does it show the lossless icon?

 

[Marco Klobas]

Apple says that Apple TV 4K already support lossless using HDMI or an AV receiver.

 

Keep in mind that all Apple TV models output at fixed 48 kHz, so a 44.1 kHz song will be upsampled and a 96 kHz will be downsampled (not bit perfect).

 

Interestingly, Apple states (my emphasis): Apple TV 4K currently doesn’t support Hi-Res Lossless (sample rates greater than 48 kHz).

 

The "currently" maybe could mean that in the future this will change.

[new_media]

4 hours ago, wklie said:

Does it have a lossless or HiRes lossless setting?  Does it show the lossless icon?

 

It does. No hi-res option.

 

 

 

[new_media]

I’ve been playing around with the Apple TV 4K a little more this morning.

 

I have some lossless, hi-res, and spatial audio albums downloaded to my phone. When I stream them to the Apple TV, even the spatial audio albums show up as lossless, so I am led to believe they are streaming from Apple’s servers rather than from my phone.

 

Interestingly, the albums that are available in hi-res, even the ones that I downloaded in spatial audio, are showing up as hi-res on the Apple TV when streamed from the phone, though they are likely being downsample to 24/48 or 16/48. I don’t believe hi-res streams can be accessed through native app.

I think that an Apple TV could be used headless to stream Apple Music lossless to an audio-only rig, but you would need a DAC with an HDMI input.

 

[vortecjr]

I'm running some tests this morning to look into if Apple Lossless is bit perfect or bit imperfect.  

 

Test #1 - Confirm locally stored track playback is bit perfect

1. Locally stored cd rip at 16/44.1 streamed via mConnect to Rendu in MPD/DLNA output mode.  

2. Signature Rendu -> Sonore ultraDigtial -> AP with output to 24/44.1 wav file (40 second capture).

3. Repeat #2 to get a send file to compare.

4. Compare captured wav files from #2 and #3

 

Results from test #1 per DeltaWave (highly recommended software)

Files are a bit-perfect match at 16 bits
Files are a bit-perfect match at 24 bits

Bit Perfect! 100%

 

More to follow...

[The Computer Audiophile]

11 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

I'm running some tests this morning to look into if Apple Lossless is bit perfect or bit imperfect.  

 

Test #1 - Confirm locally stored track playback is bit perfect

1. Locally stored cd rip at 16/44.1 streamed via mConnect to Rendu in MPD/DLNA output mode.  

2. Signature Rendu -> Sonore ultraDigtial -> AP with output to 24/44.1 wav file (40 second capture).

3. Repeat #2 to get a send file to compare.

4. Compare captured wav files from #2 and #3

 

Results from test #1 per DeltaWave (highly recommended software)

Files are a bit-perfect match at 16 bits
Files are a bit-perfect match at 24 bits

Bit Perfect! 100%

 

More to follow...

What about Apple Music Lossless?

[vortecjr]

Testing in progress:)

[vortecjr]

Test #2 - Comparing locally stored track playback with Apple Lossless for the same track

1. Apple Lossless at 24/44.1 streamed via Apple Music App to Rendu in Shairport output mode.  

2. Signature Rendu -> Sonore ultraDigtial -> AP with output to 24/44.1 wav file (40 second capture).

3. Compare captured wav files from test #1 (local rip) and #2.

 

Results comparing capture from test #1 vs capture from test #2 per DeltaWave (highly recommended software)

Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=10.67%) at 16 bits
Files are NOT a bit-perfect match (match=10.59%) at 24 bits
Files match @ 50.0065% when reduced to 4.2 bits

Not Bit Perfect 10.58%

 

Blue = local track

White = Apple Lossless track

 

More to follow...

[vortecjr]

Here is an image of the two Spectrograms side be side (left = local file, right = Apple Lossless). 

 

 

More to follow...

[vortecjr]

I'm waiting for a mini optical to standard optical adapter to arrive to test Apple Lossless with a Apple Airport Express. The part should arrive tomorrow.  

[Marco Klobas]

Thanks @vortecjr for your testing.

 

I post a link to a similar test made with shairport-sync:

 

https://github.com/mikebrady/shairport-sync/issues/1205

[Marco Klobas]

Are any Apple Music subscribers here who uploaded/matched their CD-ripped albums before Apple Music lossless was introduced?

 

My albums streams in AAC (without the lossless icon). Even if I download the songs I can't get the ALAC version.

 

I even tried to delete a song from my library, add it again and wait for uploading/matching. It still streams as AAC.

 

It's as if the "old" AAC version is kept on Apple's servers without replacing it with ALAC.

[jhwalker]

8 minutes ago, Marco Klobas said:

Are any Apple Music subscribers here who uploaded/matched their CD-ripped albums before Apple Music lossless was introduced?

 

My albums streams in AAC (without the lossless icon). Even if I download the songs I can't get the ALAC version.

 

I even tried to delete a song from my library, add it again and wait for uploading/matching. It still streams as AAC.

 

It's as if the "old" AAC version is kept on Apple's servers without replacing it with ALAC.

 

I've read elsewhere that's exactly the case - you can only download AAC versions.