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Do you hear what I hear (bit perfect files sounding different)?


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3 hours ago, Racerxnet said:

Some effort to understand exactly how it works? Shouldn't you have already known this prior to your post....

This is like asking a customer to explain the chef's cooking method and prove it. 

After all, we are all just users being curious and figuring things out when there are observations that beffudles common measurable or scientific explanation. There's no need for hostility amongst us users. 

 

5 hours ago, idiot_savant said:

But I will say to @andrewinukm - what purpose does this 1s buffer serve? Is it better than pressing “play” 1s later? How?

 

just a thought experiment , since we are running late with an explanation,

 

 

tour friendly neighbourhood idiot 

I think we're OK to digress a little as long as we are all cool headed, and get back to the topic eventually. 

 

Digital audio signals are delivered "live" as it is without means to cross check with the source. 

So according to the manufacturer, the buffer sort of holds the information and buffer it against inconsistent or poorly transmitted data, before sending it to DSP. They tested various buffer sizes, and determined that 1 second is the most ideal for their DAC. This is my layman explanation. 

 

There's a switch that defeats the buffer for videos, and most people who have listened to my setup can easily observe a difference in sound quality. I personally prefer the buffer turned on when listening to music. It's not a big deal, but if I can max out the quality for my enjoyment, why not? 

 

I generally think measurements and science based approach for audio gears should be encouraged more. But I've listened to tweaks or stuff that current measurements or scientific information doesn't explain. Instead of denying my observations or arguing with other deniers... I build stuff, test them, get friends to measure and listen, etc to understand the phenomena. I find it odd there are many who make lots of noise and demand all sorts of information, but unwilling to test it themselves. 

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10 hours ago, idiot_savant said:

@manueljenkin- I’m in no rush, it’s merely you said you’d have something, so I’m waiting patiently

 

@andrewinukm - I’m not disagreeing with a single thing you’re saying. There *are* valid reasons for having a buffer ( eg to deal with the “bursty” nature of network/USB connections ), or to prevent pops and bangs when something upstream changes, but it’s not going to help with “inconsistent” or “poorly transmitted” data - this kind of problem won’t sound slightly worse, it will pop and crackle - what kind of input are you using, out of interest?

 

I’m not here to argue with what people hear, I’m here to discuss why these beliefs have become so widespread. I’m a big believer that if you hear something but can’t measure it, you should look at why you can’t measure it, and fix that

 

 

your friendly neighbourhood idiot 

 

 

 

I wasn't directing at you, it was mainly to prevent some others who may have a hard opinion to jump in and accidentally start a thread war. 😅 

 

I mainly use USB (laptop as my digital source) & optical (gaming). I've tried SPDIF RCA with WaveIO converter before. 

 

For the case of my DAC, the buffer is implemented for sound quality reasons by the manufacturer. As a user, I like what this buffer does. Without the buffer, there's no drop outs or anything, just that I observed a slight drop in clarity.

 

Like I said, it's a layman explanation as electronics and digital science are not my specialty. Though this won't stop me from trying things out and hopefully understanding the science behind it. But the onus is not with one consumer to spend personal time and money, simply to satisfy another consumer's demand for better measurement data or proof. Also, there's the consideration that measurement technology or methodology may not be developed yet. Developing a validated test protocol is a huge scientific effort, and I thank you for thinking so highly of me or any random forumer can easily achieve this. But sadly, I can only build simple stuff and listen to it across many setups and many different ears... hopefully to identify a consistent trend. 

 

Also, I wish bit identical files sound the same. I was skeptical of claims by others, so I went and did my own tests. As for the results, let's just say  I'm either hallucinating or I'm enjoying the placebo effects waaaayyy too much than I should. 😜 Can't explain nor measure it, but I certainly have identified some consistent observations. 

 

---

This is more of a public announcement to others:

I applaud ppl like Golden Sound and Manueljenkin for their technical knowledge and willingness to to measure and prove things, even though that's not their responsibilities. 

 

So what if a user claims something? A baby seal didn't die because of that. And the software is FREE. Is there really a need to hang the creator and a user of the software just because someone hears a difference? 😅

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