Article: Introducing Hang Loose Convolver From Accurate Sound

[bbosler]

57 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

6 hours ago, Confused said:

My PC is located maybe 3 or 4 meters behind my listening position.  In an ideal world I would be able to switch filters remotely using an iPhone or iPad as a remote, but I don't think this is possible.

https://apps.apple.com/no/app/microsoft-eksternt-skrivebord/id714464092?l=nb
 

https://apps.apple.com/no/app/remote-desktop-rdp/id288362053?l=nb

 

Windows Remote Desktop only works if you have the Pro edition of Windows which is a  relatively expensive upgrade. There are a variety of free VNC solutions

[R1200CL]

4 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

Windows Remote Desktop only works if you have the Pro edition of Windows which is a  relatively expensive upgrade. There are a variety of free VNC solutions

Very cheap om eBay 😀

 

https://software.pcworld.com/p43293-windows_10_professional
 

Upgrade to W11 is free. 

[botrytis]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Very cheap om eBay 😀

 

https://software.pcworld.com/p43293-windows_10_professional
 

Upgrade to W11 is free. 

 

If your PC has Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 chip, otherwise you will have to get a NEW PC - period.

 

So, running Win 11 using VM software, on a MAC, will be dead - period.

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, botrytis said:

If your PC has Secure Boot and TPM 2.0 chip, otherwise you will have to get a NEW PC - period.

Can’t you just purchase that chip ?

I see it’s being sold everywhere. 

 

Alao you may get around this by enabling secure boot in bios, which an app won’t discover is available. 

 

 

https://www.windowscentral.com/tpm-windows-11-what-it-means

 

[botrytis]

6 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Can’t you just purchase that chip ?

I see it’s being sold everywhere. 

 

Alao you may get around this by enabling secure boot in bios, which an app won’t discover is available. 

 

 

https://www.windowscentral.com/tpm-windows-11-what-it-means

 

 

Actually, in reading no. It has to be built into the board and the BIOS. Those chips, like that, will only work with specific MB from that Manufacturer of the MB. Each MB would then have a different one and it has to be turned on in the BIOS.

[Confused]

@R1200CL, @bbosler, @botrytis Thanks for the input guys.

 

For my particular case, there is good news and bad news.

 

My PC is relatively new, less than two years old I think.  I double checked, and it does indeed have a TPM 2.0 chip.

 

That's the end of the good news, as it is running Windows Home Edition.

 

So I think I will need to look at my options here.  Upgrading to Windows Professional, just for what will be very occasional use of one piece of software, seems a bit drastic to me.  (and for what I do with a PC, over the years I have never found that I have had any other need or use for Windows Pro)

 

I'll do some research on the VNC options, but I am also thinking that sometimes simple low tech is best.  As I said, this will only be an occasional use case, so maybe just running the PC keyboard to the listening position is good enough and less hassle.

 

I'll have a think about this one!

 

@mitchco - once HLC is fully set up and running with multiple convolutions installed, what is required to switch between convolutions?  Is it a simple one press of a key an the keyboard, or a click of the mouse somewhere? 

 

 

[botrytis]

Well, Windows 10 professional lets you control more things in Windows, which is for tweakers, etc. 

 

I had Win 7 Prof so I was able to install Win 10 Professional.

 

The next big hurdle is - Secure Boot, which is basically an encrypted boot sector/OS Sector. It uses a specific HD format.

 

Secure Boot Overview | Microsoft Docs

 

One needs both the TPM 2.0 AND SECURE BOOT enabled in order to install Windows 11.

[R1200CL]

8 hours ago, Confused said:

seems a bit drastic to me

You, know, it’s just to enter a new license key under activation 😀

Select the Start  button, select Settings  > Update & Security > Activation
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384247039706?hash=item5976e886da:g:Hb8AAOSwuwpg2cZD

[mitchco]

On 6/28/2021 at 12:36 AM, Confused said:

@mitchco - once HLC is fully set up and running with multiple convolutions installed, what is required to switch between convolutions?  Is it a simple one press of a key an the keyboard, or a click of the mouse somewhere?

 

Yes, mouse click on the big Filterbank buttons to switch filters. I could implement keyboard shortcuts, but I have not looked into it yet.

[Confused]

10 hours ago, mitchco said:

 

Yes, mouse click on the big Filterbank buttons to switch filters. I could implement keyboard shortcuts, but I have not looked into it yet.

Thanks for the clarification Mitch.

 

I am thinking that there might be a few potential users like myself, that is using a PC (or Mac) as a music server and for the processing grunt, then relying on a network endpoint or similar for decent quality playback.  In other words, a few potential users for whom the PC or Mac is actually nowhere near the listening position.  Obviously there is little point having instant filter switching if you need to keep jumping up and down from the listening chair to select.

 

So some kind of remote operation would be useful.  Obviously the options detailed by others would work, remote desktop, VCN or similar.  In my case I would be more than happy with keyboard shortcuts.  I could use my current keyboard with a USB cable extension, low tech but simple and robust.  (I like simple)  Plus I have a wireless keyboard somewhere that I could utilised. 

 

Thinking about it, using the function keys would be cool.  They are already designated F1, F2 etc., ideal for Filter 1, Filter 2 and so on.

 

But that is just me, and even without shortcuts I'd fine a way....

[Iansr]

The spec sheet says HLC has zero latency.   Does that remain true if you are using it as a plug-in with JRiver?

[mitchco]

On 7/8/2021 at 3:58 PM, Iansr said:

The spec sheet says HLC has zero latency.   Does that remain true if you are using it as a plug-in with JRiver?

Yes.

[Racerxnet]

Mitch,

 

Is there a trial period before purchasing. Fully functional as well. 

[mitchco]

@RacerxnetSorry, not yet. It is on my todo list, but I don't have an ETA as I am currently working on other DSP projects.

One can download and install HLC in bypass mode to ensure the entire signal path works for the intended scenario(s). If that works then one can purchase a license key and activate HLC. I offer a 14 day money back guarantee so if it is not to your liking, I will happily refund the entire amount.

 

Kind regards,

Mitch

[Adrian Waddell]

Hello all,

 

I would to share how to set up Hang Loose Convolver (HLConvolver) with audio device loopback instead of digital loopback (using VB-Audio Virtual Cable). I would like to thank @mitchco for kindly helping me via email support! 

 

I had some problems getting HLConvolver set up with the the MOTU UltraLite mk5 on Windows 10 using the Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode).

 

My desired Signal Chain was:

1. Tidal App  --  Output: Cable Input (VB-Audio Virtual Cable)
2. HLConvolver  --  Input: Cable Output (VB-Audio Virtual Cable), Output: MOTU mk5 line 1-2
3. Amplifier connected to MOTU mk5 output 1 and 2

 

I kept getting an "Error when trying to open audio device!" when selecting the MOTU mk5 as output device:

 

 

Interestingly I did not have this issue with the HLConvolver & MOTU mk5 on Mac OSX. However, since Audiolense and Acourate Pro are Windows programs I preferred to get HLConvolver working on Windows.

 

On Windows I tried to match the sample frequency to 44.1kHz in the Windows Sound & Device settings & in the MOTU CueMix 5 settings, but I was not successful to get the desired chain above working.

 

@mitchco suggested to use the device loopback function. This way the ASIO driver can be used instead of the Windows Audio (Exclusive Mode) driver. So the new signal chain is now:

 

1. Tidal App  --  Output: Line out 5-6 (UltraLite-mk5)
2. MOTU mk5  --  loopback is set to: USB Out Line 5-6 (L-R)
3. HLConvolver  --  Input: MOTU mk5 loopback 1 + 2, Output: MOTU mk5 Main out 1 + 2
4. Amplifier connected to MOTU mk5 output 1 and 2

 

This works very well. I hope this is useful to some of you! I have added screenshots below of my app settings for the above signal chain. 

 

Best, Adrian

 

MOTU CueMix 5:

 

(I have also set Main Out 1-2 as an enable Windows Audio Stream in order to compare HLConvolver in the signal chain vs direct output to the MOTU mk5, but it is not necessary for the signal chain above).

 

HLConvolver Settings:

 

 

Tidal Output Settings:

 

 

I recommend setting Tidal to exclusive mode in the more settings dialog:

 

  

[mitchco]

Hi @Adrian Waddell Thanks for posting this!

 

Kind regards,

Mitch

[Iansr]

@Mitchco: any news on the Linux version please?   Do you anticipate that HLC will be able to run on a Pi4?

[mitchco]

@Iansr working on it, amongst other projects. Don't have an ETA. Will let you know when it comes available.

[Iansr]

Thanks Mitch.  As you may have guessed my question above is related to the LMS question I posed on the AL forum which you kindly responded to.

[mitchco]

A couple of updates:

 

1. HLC Linux version available for download. Please send me an email if you wish to target a different distro than Ubuntu.

 

2. Most Digital Audio Workstations (DAW)’s support “automatic delay compensation” when using VST3 or AU plugins that have latency. The idea is that the plugin reports its latency to the DAW and the DAW compensates for the latency. So when tracking or producing audio for video postproduction, the tracks and/or video is delayed by the number of samples reported by the plugin so that the audio lines up perfectly with the video.

 

While HLC is a 0ms latency convolver, some FIR filters have inherent delays, like if using linear phase FIR filters for example. The latency changes based on; type of FIR filter used, sample rate, number of filter taps, how much excess phase correction has been applied, and if using digital xo’s, whether min or linphase. HLC now reports the FIR filter latency to the host for automatic delay compensation:

 

A 131,072 tap minimum phase FIR filter with minimum phase digital XO reports 0 latency samples:

 

A 131,072 tap minimum phase FIR filter with linear phase digital XO reports 5,540 latency samples:

 

A 131,072 tap linear phase filter with linear phase digital XO reports 37,863 latency samples:

 

And if the sample rate changes and HLC does not find a matching FIR filter for that sample rate, then the FIR filter is resampled to maintain its frequency resolution and reports the new latency samples:

 

 

Great for DAW’s, but what about consumer applications? Working with the folks at JRiver, the latest version of JRiver now supports automatic latency compensation. This allows one to use full tap length linear phase FIR filters with excess phase correction and not have any lipsync issues while watching movies.

 

If folks can think of other consumer (or pro) applications that support the plugin model, please send me an email. I can work with the developer to implement automatic latency compensation.

 

Happy listening!

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 hours ago, mitchco said:

A couple of updates:

 

1. HLC Linux version available for download. Please send me an email if you wish to target a different distro than Ubuntu.

 

2. Most Digital Audio Workstations (DAW)’s support “automatic delay compensation” when using VST3 or AU plugins that have latency. The idea is that the plugin reports its latency to the DAW and the DAW compensates for the latency. So when tracking or producing audio for video postproduction, the tracks and/or video is delayed by the number of samples reported by the plugin so that the audio lines up perfectly with the video.

 

While HLC is a 0ms latency convolver, some FIR filters have inherent delays, like if using linear phase FIR filters for example. The latency changes based on; type of FIR filter used, sample rate, number of filter taps, how much excess phase correction has been applied, and if using digital xo’s, whether min or linphase. HLC now reports the FIR filter latency to the host for automatic delay compensation:

 

A 131,072 tap minimum phase FIR filter with minimum phase digital XO reports 0 latency samples:

 

A 131,072 tap minimum phase FIR filter with linear phase digital XO reports 5,540 latency samples:

 

A 131,072 tap linear phase filter with linear phase digital XO reports 37,863 latency samples:

 

And if the sample rate changes and HLC does not find a matching FIR filter for that sample rate, then the FIR filter is resampled to maintain its frequency resolution and reports the new latency samples:

 

 

Great for DAW’s, but what about consumer applications? Working with the folks at JRiver, the latest version of JRiver now supports automatic latency compensation. This allows one to use full tap length linear phase FIR filters with excess phase correction and not have any lipsync issues while watching movies.

 

If folks can think of other consumer (or pro) applications that support the plugin model, please send me an email. I can work with the developer to implement automatic latency compensation.

 

Happy listening!

 

So cool!

[mitchco]

Hang Loose Convolver (“HLC”) is now available on Raspberry Pi4.

 

Requirements:

Raspberry Pi4 4GB (2GB is likely to work).

64 Bit OS Debian version 11 (bullseye).

 

Performance:

Process 32 channels of convolution using 65,536 tap length FIR filters at 48 kHz sample rate.

 

Example playing a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos (already decoded) music file using a VST3 plugin AudioFilePlayer. HLC is configured for 12 channels with 2 channel I/O being summed:

 

 

While this example is using a 7.1.4 (12 channel) file being played, the FIR filterset has digital XO’s and bass management built in. So, with 12 channels of direct signal and 11 channels of bass offloading means 23 channels of discrete convolution is being processed. With 23 channels of convolution processed there is still considerable CPU headroom and buffer size left.

 

Note: HLC is a zero latency convolver, meaning no signal delay is added by the convolution engine. Therefore, one can process 65,536 tap minimum phase FIR filters immediately with no added signal delay. This is good for situations where lipsync is required but you still may want high-resolution FIR filtering capability of 65,536 tap length filters.

 

HLC comes with HLConvolverHost, which allows you to plug in virtually any VST3 plugin for additional processing. The simple audio settings dialog allows you to easily choose inputs and outputs, sample rate, and buffer size so you can be up and running in minutes.

 

Updated Operations Guide.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, mitchco said:

Hang Loose Convolver (“HLC”) is now available on Raspberry Pi4.

 

Requirements:

Raspberry Pi4 4GB (2GB is likely to work).

64 Bit OS Debian version 11 (bullseye).

 

Performance:

Process 32 channels of convolution using 65,536 tap length FIR filters at 48 kHz sample rate.

 

Example playing a 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos (already decoded) music file using a VST3 plugin AudioFilePlayer. HLC is configured for 12 channels with 2 channel I/O being summed:

 

 

While this example is using a 7.1.4 (12 channel) file being played, the FIR filterset has digital XO’s and bass management built in. So, with 12 channels of direct signal and 11 channels of bass offloading means 23 channels of discrete convolution is being processed. With 23 channels of convolution processed there is still considerable CPU headroom and buffer size left.

 

Note: HLC is a zero latency convolver, meaning no signal delay is added by the convolution engine. Therefore, one can process 65,536 tap minimum phase FIR filters immediately with no added signal delay. This is good for situations where lipsync is required but you still may want high-resolution FIR filtering capability of 65,536 tap length filters.

 

HLC comes with HLConvolverHost, which allows you to plug in virtually any VST3 plugin for additional processing. The simple audio settings dialog allows you to easily choose inputs and outputs, sample rate, and buffer size so you can be up and running in minutes.

 

Updated Operations Guide.

This is fantastic!