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Article: Introducing Hang Loose Convolver From Accurate Sound


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This is exciting!  Brings me closer to getting into DRC with the AU plugin on a Mac running Audirvana (with what appears will be minimal hassle).

 

Bill

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I'm a big Fan of Mitch's work currently using Audiolense room correction filters he developed for me to use in HQplayer . I see Hang Loose as a big step forward in the evolution of digital processing implementation so looking forward to exploring how it might fit into my system. I applaud Mitch's efforts to simplify the implementation of convolution for the non-geeks. One thing I need to look at, does Hang Loose offer enough things I can't do with the way I'm implementing convolution in HQP to make me try it?

 

My initial question is ,, where does Hang Loose  grab the digital stream? I see Hang Loose is limited to 384K and the Mac pass through is limited to 192K, didn't see what the Windows limit is. For those of us who up-sample to the max rate of our DAC, will Hang Loose limit that ability? Like I said, I use convolution in HQP which does the convolution at the file's native rate and then HQP  up-samples to 16FS.  If Hang loose grabs the stream before it is up-sampled it will work for me as I have no files above a native rate of 192K. Obviously if Hang Loose grabs it after HQP it won't. For those using PGGB to up-sample files to 16-32FS before playback it is a nonstarter.

 

For those using Pure Music or Pure Vinyl software on a Mac which can accept AU and not VST,  the availability of AU plugins is a big +. 

 

see my system at Audiogon  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768

 

 

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I have several questions:

 

1. With a VST3 plugin, does this mean that HAF’s Room Shaper can be loaded into HLC, and then through HQP desktop thereafter, running convolution filters in either HLC or HQP, and then on to Roon?

 

2. How does HLC compare to the new Audiolense Convolver product?

 

3. Can HLC be configured to apply convolution filters for the audio tracks from Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc?

 

4. Sorry, but I’m not clear on the DLNA benefit.  What’s the use case there?

 

These might be @mitchco questions to answer. :) Thanks. JCR 

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6 minutes ago, jrobbins50 said:

4. Sorry, but I’m not clear on the DLNA benefit.  What’s the use case there?

 

I can answer this one. 

 

Many people have DLNA audio endpoints. For example, I have an EMM Labs MA3 right now that accepts DLNA on its Ethernet interface. And, many people use apps that send audio out via DLNA. The high thing missing has always been the ability for an app that supports Qobuz or Tidal to use convolution while sending audio out via DLNA to a DAC / endpoint. Now we can do this by using the HLC convolver VST3 plugin for Audirvana.

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33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The high thing missing has always been the ability for an app that supports Qobuz or Tidal to use convolution while sending audio out via DLNA to a DAC / endpoint. Now we can do this by using the HLC convolver VST3 plugin for I

 

I'm a bit confused.. There are a variety of VST convolver plugins. I even found an old AU convolver plug to use with Pure Music on my Mac  that was a bit awkward to use but worked. Was it not possible to use any of these VST plug ins before HLC?

 

see my system at Audiogon  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768

 

 

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Yes, other convolvers have been around; seems like mostly from the pro sector.  This one could be cool as it will hopefully be easy to use and has been developed by a good friend of the forum/audiophiles. 

 

I have been searching for an answer to this question as I know I read it somewhere, but I can't find it.  The processing order in Audirvana.  Is it upsample then Audio Units or vice versa?

 

Bill

Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant

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41 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

I'm a bit confused.. There are a variety of VST convolver plugins. I even found an old AU convolver plug to use with Pure Music on my Mac  that was a bit awkward to use but worked. Was it not possible to use any of these VST plug ins before HLC?

 

32 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

Yes, other convolvers have been around; seems like mostly from the pro sector.  This one could be cool as it will hopefully be easy to use and has been developed by a good friend of the forum/audiophiles. 

 

I have been searching for an answer to this question as I know I read it somewhere, but I can't find it.  The processing order in Audirvana.  Is it upsample then Audio Units or vice versa?

 

Bill

 

There are many possible solutions out there, but every one I tried was problematic. Either it was buggy, not supported because it was VST rather than VST3, or it didn't support very many taps or high sample rates, etc... I searched long and hard for a solution prior to HLC. 

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Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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4 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

This is exciting!  Brings me closer to getting into DRC with the AU plugin on a Mac running Audirvana (with what appears will be minimal hassle).

 

Bill

 

1 hour ago, Bill Brown said:

Yes, other convolvers have been around; seems like mostly from the pro sector.  This one could be cool as it will hopefully be easy to use and has been developed by a good friend of the forum/audiophiles. 

 

Thanks Bill! As a +25 year pro software developer, this is one of my main goals. Make it easy to configure and operate from a user's perspective. From a developers perspective, creating software that is easy to use takes more time and effort.

 

Good luck on your journey.

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3 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

@The Computer Audiophile will this be available on Linux? Many users here use Linux based systems. I feel Euphony is best sounding for my liking (IMHO). Having convolution functionality with Euphony would be icing on the cake..

 

Hey Michael, yes available on Linux soon. I just need the Linux distro and supported C++ compiler to target a release on.

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2 hours ago, bbosler said:

I'm a big Fan of Mitch's work currently using Audiolense room correction filters he developed for me to use in HQplayer . I see Hang Loose as a big step forward in the evolution of digital processing implementation so looking forward to exploring how it might fit into my system. I applaud Mitch's efforts to simplify the implementation of convolution for the non-geeks. One thing I need to look at, does Hang Loose offer enough things I can't do with the way I'm implementing convolution in HQP to make me try it?

 

My initial question is ,, where does Hang Loose  grab the digital stream? I see Hang Loose is limited to 384K and the Mac pass through is limited to 192K, didn't see what the Windows limit is. For those of us who up-sample to the max rate of our DAC, will Hang Loose limit that ability? Like I said, I use convolution in HQP which does the convolution at the file's native rate and then HQP  up-samples to 16FS.  If Hang loose grabs the stream before it is up-sampled it will work for me as I have no files above a native rate of 192K. Obviously if Hang Loose grabs it after HQP it won't. For those using PGGB to up-sample files to 16-32FS before playback it is a nonstarter.

 

For those using Pure Music or Pure Vinyl software on a Mac which can accept AU and not VST,  the availability of AU plugins is a big +. 

 

Hey Bruce, good to hear from you and thanks for your kind words. I am taking feature requests :-)

 

As far as I know, HQP does not support VST3 plugins. So currently the digital stream for HLC is after the HQP upsample. I don't know what the API capability of HQP is as I haven't looked into it yet. Maybe there is a way...

 

Kind regards,

Mitch

 

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3 hours ago, jrobbins50 said:

I have several questions:

 

1. With a VST3 plugin, does this mean that HAF’s Room Shaper can be loaded into HLC, and then through HQP desktop thereafter, running convolution filters in either HLC or HQP, and then on to Roon?

 

2. How does HLC compare to the new Audiolense Convolver product?

 

3. Can HLC be configured to apply convolution filters for the audio tracks from Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, etc?

 

4. Sorry, but I’m not clear on the DLNA benefit.  What’s the use case there?

 

These might be @mitchco questions to answer. :) Thanks. JCR 

 

Hi Jeffrey, thanks for your questions.

 

1) No Room Shaper cannot be loaded into HLC. 

 

2) Bernt is one of my DSP Partner's :-)

 

3) Yes, see the System Wide Audio section in the HLC Operations Guide.

 

4) Chris answered that one.

 

Kind regards,

Mitch

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4 hours ago, mitchco said:

As far as I know, HQP does not support VST3 plugins. 

 

correct, I would consider HQP to be a plugin in the sense that it integrates with roon and other audio players and adds it's own set of capabilities, upsampling to many different rates and bit depths with a variety of filters as well as having built in convolution capabilities accepting impulse files for EQ. Also a stand alone player.  That is a very poor explanation of all it does but hopefully you get the idea.

 

 

4 hours ago, mitchco said:

So currently the digital stream for HLC is after the HQP upsample.

 

this will be a severe limitation for some. If I understand correctly, the pipeline you need to get the stream into HLC is limited to 192K so if it comes after upsampling and before HLC doesn't that limit the max rate to 192K? I'm not convinced that going higher really makes much difference, but some here are convinced that 16-32FS is essential for getting the best out of their DACs. 

 

I know this is a work in progress so I'm sure if the demand is there the need will eventually get met

 

 

see my system at Audiogon  https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768

 

 

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18 hours ago, mitchco said:

Make it easy to configure and operate from a user's perspective.

Hi Mitchco, 

First of all thank you so much for your work during all these years, for the benefit of those who want to enjoy music at its best 

Absolutely fantastic! 

Question: in order to load the Acourate filters,  can I just use the cpv files generated by Acourate? 

Thank you again

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Hi @deneb Thanks! Re: Acourate cpv is Acourate's proprietary filter format. But it is easy to generate the filter format HLC will accept from Acourate in a minute or 2. In Macro 4, select 32 bit stereo .wav format and generate as before. From the Room menu, select Create Acourate for Roon ZIP and that will place all of the filters at different sample rates in a zip file. In HLC, select the zip file and you are good to go.

 

Kind regards,

Mitch

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@mitchco Very glad to see this coming up! Can't say enough good things about you. Your Computer Audiophile Acourate articles inspired me to go digitally active an into Acourate, which I still use. That opened the door into DIY speakers, and your ebook was essential to getting a better grasp on measurements and use of Acourate. And you have always been very helpful on email exchanges. Outstanding member of this community!

 

Where does HLC fit into my system? I have Roon Core in a PC convolving filters to send 4-way stereo to a headless AudioPC with Roon Bridge at the living room, and I operate Roon from the phone app. I listen to files in my library in Roon Core PC and also Tidal streaming into Roon in that PC. I guess HLC plugs into Roon, takes the feed from Roon that is actually Tidal stream or my music files, convolves it with the selected filter, and outputs into Roon again to be sent to Roon Bridge on the AudioPC?

 

Is there a phone app to manage this or should I be at the Roon Core machine (Teamviewer can solve that), or does it integrate with Roon app?

 

Looking forward to learn more! Congrats again!!

 

Best,

Horacio

Roon Server: Gigabyte GA-Z170X UD5, i5 6600, Crucial MX200 SSD, HyperX 1x16GB RAM, Seasonic 520W 80+ PSU, 3 HDD for media, Zalman Z3 Plus case, Win 10 Pro, convolving in Roon digital xo + DRC + upsampling. Output through ethernet.

Roon Client AudioPC: Intel S1200KPR, Xeon E3 1265lv2, Crucial V4 SSD for OS, 8GB ECC RAM, PPA USB card v2, wide range picoPSU, PPA SATA cable for SSD, Streacom FC8 Evo case, lab linear PSU for picoPSU, Windows Server 2012 R2, AudioPhil's Optimizer, Acourate (digital crossovers, room correction )

Rest of Chain:

Uptone ISO Regen (with LPS 1.2) into Lynx Hilo as 6-channel DAC, McIntosh MC275 MkIV for mids & treble, Hypex UcD400HG for midbass into B&W 804S, 2 DIY 12" Rythmik subs, Equi=Core 1800 balanced power, dedicated power lines, room treatments

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Hi Guys,

The Zero latency, uniform partition convolution engine.

More information please.

I gather you are targeting low end CPUs - so how many channels @ 48k could be considered on a modern PC ?

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