Popular Post Teresa Posted June 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 6/16/2021 at 3:14 PM, skikirkwood said: ...I have friends who have spent $17K on network streamers, huge amounts of money on high end speaker and interconnect cables and always challenge them to a $1000 bet they can't distinguish something like their $17K streamer to one one of my Raspberry PIs, both outputting to the same DAC. Nobody has taken me up on my offer to date. I don't have any friends as rich and extravagant as your friends. 7 hours ago, Allan F said: So what! This says far more about you than it does about them. You apparently have a need to prove that you are right, whereas they are content - as am I and most who trust their ears - to be guided by their experience and simply enjoy the music. They have neither the need nor the desire to take you up on what they see as needless (annoying?) challenges. 🙂 I agree, I trust my ears (with long term listening) even when the results don't seem logical! Such as preferring music from my $254 Yamaha Blu-ray / SACD universal player more than digital files played through my $800 Teac UD-501 DSD USB DAC. I have no doubt that the DAC in the cheap Yamaha player is much cheaper than the DAC in the 3 times more expensive Teac DAC. It doesn't make sense to me, still I have to go with my ears and enjoy the music. 2 hours ago, skikirkwood said: ...I am totally content with my audio and home theater systems. I love music, I have no interest in upgrading fuses and trying out $1000 power cables. However *they* challenge me, telling me I need to upgrade my equipment, that everything matters, that you get what you pay for. In their mind it's impossible a $17K network streamer and $50 Raspberry Pi could generate exactly the same sound quality if they both feed the same DAC. It's impossible a relatively inexpensive speaker or interconnect cable could sound the same as something from Nordost or Audience. So in response, like anyone born in Brooklyn, I say put up or shut up. So far, they've all shut up. I'm also totally content with my audio / video system. I'm a subjective, however I have zero interest in upgrading fuses or trying out $1000 power cables. Please don't put all subjectives in the same basket. No one has ever challenged me, no one tells me I have to upgrade my equipment. If they did I wouldn't feel the need to do what someone else tells me to do, I do what I want. Thus, I have no problem with extravagant spendthrifts whither they are spending on audio equipment, cables, $1,000+ perfumes, purses, body creams or $100 hamburgers. I'm perfectly happy with my $30 per pair Monster cable interconnects, $3 per foot Monster speaker cables, and stock power cords. Music through my system when playing the best engineered and mastered recordings sounds very realistic. In short I am thrilled with my audio / video system. What other people spend or don't spend on anything doesn't bother me as it is their money. BTW I paid $1 for my perfume from Dollar Tree. PeterSt, Allan F, audiobomber and 1 other 4 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Popular Post Teresa Posted June 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2021 I have a question: why is a thread called Trust your ears in the Objective-Fi forum? botrytis, masch, jabbr and 2 others 2 3 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Popular Post Teresa Posted June 21, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 21, 2021 22 hours ago, Allan F said: ...Now please excuse me while I leave this forum and move to my living room to enjoy listening to music. 🙂 I agree, music is what is all about. The Audiophile Style forum is a nice diversion and I often learn something I didn't know before and at other times I am amused by what I read. 7 hours ago, skikirkwood said: ...people following audiobacon's every word about $1000 dollar power, USB and ethernet cables. I feel sorry for them. Hopefully anyone spending such extravagant amounts of money for items that offer little or no improvement are rich enough to thrown money away and that it doesn't destroy their marriage or cause them to become homeless. 3 hours ago, kumakuma said: Isn't it amazing that lost objects are always in the last place you look? That's because once found we quit looking for them. My biggest problem is I start looking for an item I can't find and then during my search I forget what I'm looking for. One of two things happen: I happen to see it and say "oh that was what I was looking for" I don't have a clue and give up and go sit back down. If it was important, in time I will go look for it again if not I just don't worry about it. Allan F and AnotherSpin 2 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Popular Post Teresa Posted June 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2021 On 5/9/2021 at 11:57 AM, skikirkwood said: ...After my 30 minutes of bliss I walked to the back of my sound system to adjust a cable. And I realized something. I had forgot to switch my pre-amp source to the output of the HRT Music Streamer. I was still listening to the built-in DAC of the Touch. I thought I could trust me ears, but clearly I could not. This happened almost 10 years ago I think. And ever since, every time I read a "professional" review in an audiophile publication, or a comment in a forum like this, when someone says "trust your ears", I just kind of laugh. Confirmation bias is a very powerful tendency we humans all have. The above quote is from your original post. It is also the reason why I questioned why your thread Trust your ears was in the Objective-Fi forum? As confirmation bias was your conclusion why you heard such a large difference when the inputs were not actually changed. By all logic the sound should have been the same. This shows a limitation of human beings and why I don't believe in jumping to any conclusion about sound quality too soon. To me this is a subjectivist experience and observation and IMHO should not be in the Objective-Fi forum. I do agree with your experience as this has been reported by many others. This subjectivist behavior of trying to find a difference when none exists is well known and this is why what works for me is long term listening with a wide variety of music I like one way for a week and then listening to the same selection of albums the other way for a week and then back to the first way for a week. Then compare notes about what I liked and disliked during each week. Nothing else works for me (see below) and that is why I don't purchase audio equipment unless it has a 30 day money back guarantee with no restocking fee. In short, I never trust listening impressions from only one or a few sessions. Also I believe many audio products, music files and music discs sound great at first until the newness wears off and I begin to hear their flaws. I also wanted to explain why back and forth AB'ing doesn't work for me. If I play two different samples, and I think one sounds great and I think the other sounds even better. When I go back to confirm the difference I heard, both samples now sound terrible and I no longer like either one. I don’t know if anyone else has this problem, I suspect some do. All I can say is whatever music I use for comparison I can’t listen to again for enjoyment for a very long time. 16 hours ago, Iving said: The Thread Title (and possibly intent) is bait. You can't debate both sides of "Trust your ears" harnessing empirical data. It's implicit in "Trust your ears" that empirical data are overridden. In Objective-Fi, the Thread as launched ("omg i thought i could hear a difference, but i hadn't even changed input source - geddit?") is at best an echo chamber. At worst it becomes tinder for the same old tensions. The gap between soft-Objective and soft-Subjective can/should be had out as argument. But not here. Agreed. 12 hours ago, Allan F said: The "problem" you refer to is, at least with respect to this thread, the result of a topic Trust Your Ears that intentionally or otherwise invites replies from subjectivists. I agree with Teresa who, appropriately in my view, questioned whether this topic belongs in the Objective-Fi forum. Yes and I still believe this thread doesn't belong here. 7 hours ago, skikirkwood said: ...I am sitting here thoroughly enjoying my music, and I have people telling me I need to upgrade my Raspberry Pi to a Lumin stream to get better sound quality. I need to upgrade my 22 year old Bryston Amp. I need to upgrade my Modi's to Yggy's. No, I don't, I am happy as is. And when someone tells me I need to do an expensive upgrade to achieve better sound quality, but it won't, I challenge them to prove it to me with a simple bet. Nobody has ever taken me up on this. Who is telling you all this stuff? I'm a subjectivist with a 30 year old Adcom GFA-555II amp and no one has told me I must upgrade it. I love my Adcom, it serves my music well. If someone tells you to do such thing, you don't have to listen to them. I don't challenge anyone to prove anything to me as I don't care what equipment they listen to, as only my equipment effects how my music sounds, not their equipment! Also, I don't believe in gambling. audiobomber, Confused, Allan F and 3 others 5 1 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
Popular Post Teresa Posted June 22, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 22, 2021 30 minutes ago, March Audio said: So would I be correct that you are acknowledging the potential fallibility of listening impressions? That the bias of "newness" can influence your opinion? What about some other potential biases? Price, brand, aesthetics, what a reviewer or your mate said about the product? Would those wear off after extended listening, or could they even be re-inforced? Yes to all. IMHO extended listening with a wide variety of music makes it very hard for biases to be reinforced. While the ear / brain system can be tricked in the short-term, I don't believe it can be tricked in the long-term. False sound can last only so long, eventually one would hear the actual true sound as music is very complex and more one listens the more there is to hear. OTOH price is important to me as I am a poor retired music lover. $1,000 is the most I would ever spend on a component, $500 is more reasonable to me, and finding a $250 giant killer I find thrilling. I'm thrifty. Reviewers don't influence me at all since we all hear differently. I don't subscribe to any audio magazines as most of the equipment they review is way out of my price range. I like to read reviews of high-res music discs and music files, I've discovered a lot of great music this way. manueljenkin, opus101, Confused and 2 others 3 2 I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums. I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past. I still love music. Teresa Link to comment
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