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Trust your ears


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2 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

Unfortunately, the idea of unreconciled (incompatibilist) free will fares worse than reconciled (compatibilist) free will, contrary to our libertarian instincts; that is to say, neither of these ideas are very satisfying.  Likewise, acceptance that there is no free will is even less satisfying (due to it's implications for moral responsibility and human dignity).  Nonetheless, I don't see how this is an example of where the truth may lie "in between" -- rather, you have free will or you don't (a binary condition).

 

 

If you have a free will could you choose your next thought? 

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2 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

If you have a free will could you choose your next thought? 

 

If I could choose my next thought, then it must be the case that I could choose to choose my next thought.  But herein lies a regress that always ends in darkness.  This morning, I looked out the window and the sun was shining and I smiled.  No need for words, my friend.

mQa is dead!

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48 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

If I could choose my next thought, then it must be the case that I could choose to choose my next thought.  But herein lies a regress that always ends in darkness.  This morning, I looked out the window and the sun was shining and I smiled.  No need for words, my friend.

 

Exactly. And there is no no need to choose anything for sun to shine and for day to be beautiful. By the way, can you choose your next thought? 🙂

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  • 1 month later...
6 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Your story is a good example of confirmation or expectation bias, but IMO it does not support your conclusion to most of those who "trust their ears". That is because they do not draw conclusions based solely on listening immediately after making an equipment change. Rather, they listen to a variety of music with which they are very familiar over an extended period of time to determine if they hear a difference. And that necessarily also involves comparisons. They have no cause to share your laughter.

 

Well, I am definitely not like most of you who "trust your ears". And I have to respectfully disagree with the logic of your argument here. My point was because I expected a significant increase in sound quality, I thought I actually did hear a very big improvement. And I was listening to a track that I've played for years by Mark Knopfler, so I was very familiar with it. 

 

I would fully expect that my mind's expectation bias would continue had I listened to additional familiar albums over an extended period of time. If I had not heard a significant improvement in sound quality after the immediate equipment change, that would be a different narrative.

 

But perception is reality, and if people hear improved sound from $1000 speaker cables, power conditioners, and the like, I have no issue with that. I do have issue with arrogant "audiophiles" who talk about their golden ears, if you can't hear a difference in sound with some equipment it's because you don't have a high enough system, etc. Too many people in this "hobby" have a stick up their ass. 

 

I have friends who have spent $17K on network streamers, huge amounts of money on high end speaker and interconnect cables and always challenge them to a $1000 bet they can't distinguish something like their $17K streamer to one one of my Raspberry PIs, both outputting to the same DAC. Nobody has taken me up on my offer to date.

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10 hours ago, skikirkwood said:

 

Well, I am definitely not like most of you who "trust your ears". And I have to respectfully disagree with the logic of your argument here. My point was because I expected a significant increase in sound quality, I thought I actually did hear a very big improvement. And I was listening to a track that I've played for years by Mark Knopfler, so I was very familiar with it. 

 

I would fully expect that my mind's expectation bias would continue had I listened to additional familiar albums over an extended period of time. If I had not heard a significant improvement in sound quality after the immediate equipment change, that would be a different narrative.

 

But perception is reality, and if people hear improved sound from $1000 speaker cables, power conditioners, and the like, I have no issue with that. I do have issue with arrogant "audiophiles" who talk about their golden ears, if you can't hear a difference in sound with some equipment it's because you don't have a high enough system, etc. Too many people in this "hobby" have a stick up their ass. 

 

I have friends who have spent $17K on network streamers, huge amounts of money on high end speaker and interconnect cables and always challenge them to a $1000 bet they can't distinguish something like their $17K streamer to one one of my Raspberry PIs, both outputting to the same DAC. Nobody has taken me up on my offer to date.

Does it depend on the Raspberry Pi and how its connected/powered or anything will do? 

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Deleted:

 

(Post moved to a more appropriate thread)

 

 

Windows 10 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade.  Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection.

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5 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

So what! This says far more about you than it does about them. You apparently have a need to prove that you are right, whereas they are content - as am I and most who trust their ears - to be guided by their experience and simply enjoy the music. They have neither the need nor the desire to take you up on what they see as needless (annoying?) challenges. 🙂

 

No, you got it totally wrong dude. I am totally content with my audio and home theater systems. I love music, I have no interest in upgrading fuses and trying out $1000 power cables. However *they* challenge me, telling me I need to upgrade my equipment, that everything matters, that you get what you pay for. In their mind it's impossible a $17K network streamer and $50 Raspberry Pi could generate exactly the same sound quality if they both feed the same DAC. It's impossible a relatively inexpensive speaker or interconnect cable could sound the same as something from Nordost or Audience.

 

So in response, like anyone born in Brooklyn, I say put up or shut up. So far, they've all shut up.

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5 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

So what! This says far more about you than it does about them. You apparently have a need to prove that you are right, whereas they are content - as am I and most who trust their ears - to be guided by their experience and simply enjoy the music. They have neither the need nor the desire to take you up on what they see as needless (annoying?) challenges. 🙂

 

A specific example is it was suggested I upgrade one of my Raspberry Pis (I have several that act as network streamers) to a Lumin U1. A U1 costs $6,100, doesn't have built-in Wifi, and has a small, monochrome text display. My $120 Pi setup does have built-in Wifi, along with a color touchscreen interface. So would I "upgrade" to a Luminary's U1? That's a question for an insanity test. It would be a downgrade.

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1 hour ago, skikirkwood said:

 

If two different network streamers get the same bits to the DAC that uses asynchronous USB, the sound will be equivalent from either.

Maybe if you had a higher end DAC you could tell the difference between sources?

 

I have a Mc/B&W main system comparable to yours, and an NAD/B&W secondary system that costs about 1/10 the price.  Schiit Yggy DAC on the main, Schiit Modi on the secondary.  I recently bought a Bluesound Node that sounds just fine on the secondary system, but is a big disappointment compared to ripped CDs on the main system.

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30 minutes ago, One and a half said:

The question is did you review/test the Lumin U1 over the Pi over a period of time. That's using your ears, oh wait, you laugh at that. I have a U1 and contemplating a Pi to use as a sequencer for powering up the audio system and a daily driver PC, so I have to use my ears as they are the only qualified analytical tool I have and are portable.

 

How could I possibly test or review a Lumin U1? The closest dealer to where I live has this website: http://www.sounddecisionsaudio.net "Built by WebSite Builder", Copyright 2013. Yeah right.

 

Hey, I like the machined aluminum case the U1 has, but I will challenge anyone a large sum of money that in a blind test they could not differentiate the sound of U1 from a Pi using the same DACs. 

 

And yes, I have researched this topic, reading articles like this, of people who did invest a significant amount of time and effort trying to understand would there be a difference of networked streamers in general: https://archimago.blogspot.com/2019/02/musings-computer-audio-mythos-comment.html

 

I'm sure @Archimago would be happy to do a test of a Lumin streamer if someone would loan him one.

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1 hour ago, PeterG said:

Maybe if you had a higher end DAC you could tell the difference between sources?

 

I have a Mc/B&W main system comparable to yours, and an NAD/B&W secondary system that costs about 1/10 the price.  Schiit Yggy DAC on the main, Schiit Modi on the secondary.  I recently bought a Bluesound Node that sounds just fine on the secondary system, but is a big disappointment compared to ripped CDs on the main system.

 

But the Bluesound Node has a built-in DAC, doesn't it? So are you bypassing that and just sending the digital output to the Modi?

 

I would love to test the sound of a Schiit Yggy, but don't want to pay the restocking fee should I not hear a difference in sound quality. If I ever get down to L.A. from Palo Alto I would love to drop by the Schiitr and do some sound comparisons of their DACs, amps and preamps.

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