ASRMichael Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 @Zaphod Beeblebrox my TAD DAC only does maximum of 384khz. Is it even worth using PGGB given the low fs? ambre 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 25, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 25, 2021 17 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: @Zaphod Beeblebrox my TAD DAC only does maximum of 384khz. Is it even worth using PGGB given the low fs? I do not know enough about the internal architecture of TSAD DAC to make an assertion one way or the other. Your DAC will benefit most from PGGBd redbook content to the extent it can take advantage DXD rates at 32 bits. Since your DAC also accepts DSD rates up to DSD128, you should also try HQPlayer at the highest rate for comparison to see if you prefer one over the other. There are some DACs such as T+A which accepts 8FS but also higher rate DSD is processed in pure mode as single bit DSDs and for those, I feel HQPlayer will be the better option too. 87mpi and ASRMichael 1 1 Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
Popular Post ray-dude Posted April 25, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 25, 2021 7 hours ago, HeeBroG said: To the early adopters, With PGGB, is there still a need to purchase hi-res files? In other words, would PGGB of 24/192 when available be superior to 16/44? Geoff, I'll echo what others have said: get music as close to the native mastering format as possible, and process to as close as the native format of your DAC as possible (in the case of our Chord DAVEs, 16fs 32 bit PCM) In digital processing, every time you change sample rate or bit depth, some of the original information is lost. Alas, we don't have control of what happened during mastering and down conversion to redbook - it could have been done carefully and well, it could be done poorly. As a thought experiment, take a favorite high res file. Use your favorite conversion package and decimate it to 1fs 16 bit. Take your favorite upsampling package and upsample it to the original high res sample rate and bit depth. Repeat this 5 times. Compare the resulting high res file to your original, and you'll have a sense of how "ideal" the down sampling and up sampling is. If you can't hear a difference, it is effectively "ideal" for your system. If you can hear a difference, you're hearing the result of the repeated non-ideal conversions. For folks doing PGGB, PGGB does downsampling as well, using the same near ideal filters as it uses for upsampling. You can do this experiment yourself by running PGGB on the same file over and over, going from (say) DXD format to redbook to DXD, etc. Try the same with XLD or HQP or whatever conversion software you like. It is very informative to hear the differences. Note that differences are OK. For example, if a digital process adds an echo effect, it can be quite pleasant (same with equalization). Running through the same process 5 times will result in a mess, but running it through once may be awesome. For this experiment, any difference is indicative of how non-ideal the processing is, not an indication of whether one prefers the SQ of a filter or not. Addendum: if you want to isolate the effect of upsampling and downsampling as much as you can, do everything in 64 bits until the final step. For example, if you start with a DXD file (typically 8fs 24 bit), use PGGB to convert it to 1fs 64 bit, then 8fs 64 bit, then 1fs 64 bit, etc. On the file step, make the last conversion from 1fs 64 bit to 8fs 24bit and compare to your original file. This will minimize the impact of bit rate changes, and let you focus on the idealized reconstruction (decimation) filter instead (the giga tap filter). HeeBroG and happybob 1 1 ATT Fiber -> EdgeRouter X SFP -> Taiko Audio Extreme -> Vinnie Rossi L2i-SE w/ Level 2 DAC -> Voxativ 9.87 speakers w/ 4D drivers Link to comment
happybob Posted April 25, 2021 Share Posted April 25, 2021 Here's the single chip (2.6T transistors, 850000 cores) that will allow PGGB to do realtime upsampling... Ha! Well maybe some day! https://singularityhub.com/2021/04/25/the-worlds-biggest-ai-chip-now-comes-stock-with-2-6-trillion-transistors Zaphod Beeblebrox 1 Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted April 26, 2021 Share Posted April 26, 2021 12 hours ago, happybob said: Here's the single chip (2.6T transistors, 850000 cores) that will allow PGGB to do realtime upsampling... Ha! Well maybe some day! https://singularityhub.com/2021/04/25/the-worlds-biggest-ai-chip-now-comes-stock-with-2-6-trillion-transistors The day that comes we'll be well on our journey to this.... happybob 1 Link to comment
HeeBroG Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 Hi all. Do you think this laptop would process PGGB files reasonably well? G PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 27, 2021 Share Posted April 27, 2021 8 hours ago, HeeBroG said: Hi all. Do you think this laptop would process PGGB files reasonably well? G Are you planning to use Parallels or Bootcamp?, in either case if you can allocate 48GB or more to windows, then you should be good. If you have a lot of DSD content, then using Bootcamp may be preferable as you can make use of all of 64GB. If using Parallels and if you can allocate 56GB to the VM, the performance will be bit slower with DSD tracks that are more than 5 minutes long. HeeBroG 1 Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
idesign Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 21 hours ago, HeeBroG said: Hi all. Do you think this laptop would process PGGB files reasonably well? G I'm typing this on a similar spec 2019 MacBook Pro (only difference is 5500M 8GB). If there is ever a native OS X version of PGGB, I'll purchase it-- though I assume they would go straight to an ARM build at this point in time. Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, idesign said: I'm typing this on a similar spec 2019 MacBook Pro (only difference is 5500M 8GB). If there is ever a native OS X version of PGGB, I'll purchase it-- though I assume they would go straight to an ARM build at this point in time. PGGB is uses Matlab which currently runs on rosetta on M1. I don't believe ARM will be an issue, one of the reasons I chose a Matlab was it makes cross platform support easier. Though PGGB does not currently support OS X, there is a very good chance that there will be Mac support. In your case, I worry more about 8GB RAM. Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
idesign Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: PGGB is uses Matlab which currently runs on rosetta on M1. I don't believe ARM will be an issue, one of the reasons I chose a Matlab was it makes cross platform support easier. Though PGGB does not currently support OS X, there is a very good chance that there will be Mac support. In your case, I worry more about 8GB RAM. 8GB refers to the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M. I have 64GB of DDR4 memory which is the maximum spec Apple offers for the current 16-inch MacBook Pro. Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 28, 2021 Share Posted April 28, 2021 58 minutes ago, idesign said: 8GB refers to the AMD Radeon Pro 5500M. I have 64GB of DDR4 memory which is the maximum spec Apple offers for the current 16-inch MacBook Pro. Sorry about that, I misunderstood. Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
Popular Post zettelsm Posted April 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 28, 2021 On 4/25/2021 at 9:44 AM, ASRMichael said: @Zaphod Beeblebrox my TAD DAC only does maximum of 384khz. Is it even worth using PGGB given the low fs? @ASRMichael, my dCS Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler do a maximum of 384kHz and DSD128. 24-bit word length for PCM. Yet, there is a fair bit of content I've tried so far that definitely benefits from PGGB. And I have some DSD rips from SACD that were pretty hard to listen to as DSD but absolutely kick butt after having been PGGB'd at 24/352.8/384. Genesis' A Trick Of The Tail is prime among these latter DSDs. I'd say, give it a try and decide for yourself. The trial license doesn't cost anything. I'm sure you've invested much more time in computer audio experiments that have had less positive effect. At the least, you'll learn something. And I always count it as a good day when I learn something. Steve Z austinpop, lwr, ASRMichael and 1 other 2 2 VPI-HW40 Anniversary turntable, Grado Aeon3 cartridge; Teres turntable, VPI Fatboy gimbal, Dynavector XV1-S, Lyra Helikon mono; Taiko Audio Extreme server, dCS Vivaldi DAC, Upsampler Plus and Clock, Cybershaft OP21 Reference Clock; Playback Designs Pinot ADC; D'Agostino Momentum M400 amplifiers, Momentum HD preamp, Momentum phono stage; Wilson Audio Alexx speakers, 2X3 SVS SB16 Ultra subwoofers; Shunyata Triton v3/Typhon QR & Typhon, Shunyata Sigma NR & Alpha NR power cords, Sigma interconnects, digital and speaker cables; Stillpoints ESS grid system rack; Stillpoints Ultras and Ultra 5s, component stands and cones under everything, ASC Tube Traps . . . and lots and lots of music. Link to comment
Popular Post Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 29, 2021 On 4/27/2021 at 8:07 PM, idesign said: I'm typing this on a similar spec 2019 MacBook Pro (only difference is 5500M 8GB). If there is ever a native OS X version of PGGB, I'll purchase it-- though I assume they would go straight to an ARM build at this point in time. I have just released Mac version of PGGB. It shares the same features as the Windows version. It will run on both M1 and Intel platforms. On M1, it requires Rosetta (tested on M1 Mac book Air, 16GB RAM, 1TB Storage). https://www.remastero.com/pggb.html#download ambre, jean-michel6, Bill Brown and 2 others 3 2 Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
Fourlegs Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said: I have just released Mac version of PGGB. It shares the same features as the Windows version. It will run on both M1 and Intel platforms. On M1, it requires Rosetta (tested on M1 Mac book Air, 16GB RAM, 1TB Storage). https://www.remastero.com/pggb.html#download Thanks for releasing this Mac version. I was using PGGB Windows version with Parallels on my iMac and all I can say is that this just released Mac native version of PGGB absolutely flies (perhaps 1/3 less processing time for an album!) ambre 1 Owner Wave High Fidelity digital cables : Antipodes Oladra (WAVE Storm BNC spdif RF noise filtering cable to Mscaler) Dave (with Sean Jacobs ARC6 and SJ Cap Board) + WAVE Storm dual BNC RF noise filtering cables ATC150 active speakers. Link to comment
matthias Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, Fourlegs said: ...released Mac native version of PGGB It is not native for Apple M1 platform as it requires Rosetta. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 34 minutes ago, matthias said: It is not native for Apple M1 platform as it requires Rosetta. Matt Native macOS/Intel yes, not native to M1 (yet) but hopefully this year when a native runtime becomes available. matthias 1 Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
Zaphod Beeblebrox Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 Here is a comparison of the performance on M1 (blue), FFT is what is relevant to PGGB and my experience when comparing speeds on my M1 to my desktop running intel [email protected] is similar (M1 3x slower) but no slouch in spite of running on Rosetta. Source: Link happybob 1 Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN Link to comment
Fourlegs Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, matthias said: It is not native for Apple M1 platform as it requires Rosetta. Matt Pedant. My Mac is not an M1 platform Apple so for my Intel Mac it is native. ASRMichael 1 Owner Wave High Fidelity digital cables : Antipodes Oladra (WAVE Storm BNC spdif RF noise filtering cable to Mscaler) Dave (with Sean Jacobs ARC6 and SJ Cap Board) + WAVE Storm dual BNC RF noise filtering cables ATC150 active speakers. Link to comment
matthias Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 18 minutes ago, Fourlegs said: Pedant. Please hold your horses. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Fourlegs Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 hours ago, matthias said: Please hold your horses. Matt 😄 I’m riding them today. Hence the Fourlegs! Owner Wave High Fidelity digital cables : Antipodes Oladra (WAVE Storm BNC spdif RF noise filtering cable to Mscaler) Dave (with Sean Jacobs ARC6 and SJ Cap Board) + WAVE Storm dual BNC RF noise filtering cables ATC150 active speakers. Link to comment
rando Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 4 hours ago, Fourlegs said: Pedant. 3 hours ago, matthias said: Please hold your horses. 1 hour ago, Fourlegs said: I’m riding them today. Hence the Fourlegs! Please rein in your horses. Link to comment
Popular Post ASRMichael Posted April 29, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 29, 2021 19 hours ago, zettelsm said: @ASRMichael, my dCS Vivaldi DAC and Upsampler do a maximum of 384kHz and DSD128. 24-bit word length for PCM. Yet, there is a fair bit of content I've tried so far that definitely benefits from PGGB. And I have some DSD rips from SACD that were pretty hard to listen to as DSD but absolutely kick butt after having been PGGB'd at 24/352.8/384. Genesis' A Trick Of The Tail is prime among these latter DSDs. I'd say, give it a try and decide for yourself. The trial license doesn't cost anything. I'm sure you've invested much more time in computer audio experiments that have had less positive effect. At the least, you'll learn something. And I always count it as a good day when I learn something. Steve Z Ok I tried this today....I had to use my home pc i7 7700t & 24gb of RAM for the conversion. I am completely dumbfounded, blown away! I was never completely happy with how rock music sounded on my system, a few tracks of Metallica & I was in awe! Well done to everyone involved! I can’t wait to give extensive listening over the weekend! austinpop, zettelsm, ambre and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 1 hour ago, ASRMichael said: Ok I tried this today....I had to use my home pc i7 7700t & 24gb of RAM for the conversion. I am completely dumbfounded, blown away! I was never completely happy with how rock music sounded on my system, a few tracks of Metallica & I was in awe! Well done to everyone involved! I can’t wait to give extensive listening over the weekend! 64gb ordered to take full advantage! @Zaphod Beeblebrox customer service is fantastic! Link to comment
austinpop Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: 64gb ordered to take full advantage! @Zaphod Beeblebrox customer service is fantastic! Awesome. What is your DAC and digital chain, Michael? My Audio Setup Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted April 29, 2021 Share Posted April 29, 2021 2 minutes ago, austinpop said: Awesome. What is your DAC and digital chain, Michael? DAC - TAD D1000, 384 dxd max. you can see my profile pdf for the chain. 👍 Link to comment
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