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A toast to PGGB, a heady brew of math and magic


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@Zaphod Beeblebrox

Hi ZB, 

 

When combining tracks in a live album with say 3min tracks over 30mins duration;

 

Each track at 3min would be about 128M taps.

 

Whilst if combining the 10 tracks of 3min each would yield 1280M taps overall.

 

Am I right that in this instance there is no advantage mathematically in combining the tracks?

 

It would only be useful if tracks were of disparate lengths with some being particularly short say 45sec where there will be 32M taps?

 

I'm trying to wrap my head around this concept and trying to figure out which albums I should use the "combine track" feature.

 

 

 

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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So in other words; combine tracks whenever possible if the album is a continuous recording. 

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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2 hours ago, HeeBroG said:

So in other words; combine tracks whenever possible if the album is a continuous recording. 

Correct.

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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Ok; final question on the topic ZB.

Some live albums have tracks spliced in from another "take" but done at the same venue and with presumably the same equipment. 

This is often done quite cleverly during the applause between tracks to make it less obvious.

 

Would combining these tracks be still be a valid approach?

 

I ask as it would be quite laborious to perform this step try and distinguish which tracks to combine for certain albums.

My inner OCD is getting the better of me!😅

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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On 8/16/2021 at 2:46 AM, WilliamWykeham said:

For a Holo May owner, what would the recommendation be if using digital volume control in my playback software - JPLAY/Hqplayer?  

 

I removed my preamp from the chain and perceived a boost in SQ.  Just not sure if I should still be setting bits at 20 in PGGB.  

HQPlayer software volume control worked perfectly for me with DSD on the Holo May, but didn't work with PCM.  I didn't get to the bottom of it and decided that the May wasn't for me anyhow.

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42 minutes ago, CNoblet said:

No more playing around with audio settings, and no more EQ/convolution!  

If you already have a convolution filter, current PGGB can also do EQ, something you can give a try if you so wish.

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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On 8/15/2021 at 9:46 PM, WilliamWykeham said:

For a Holo May owner, what would the recommendation be if using digital volume control in my playback software - JPLAY/Hqplayer?  

 

I removed my preamp from the chain and perceived a boost in SQ.  Just not sure if I should still be setting bits at 20 in PGGB.  

An active pre-amp can add its own signature/limitations. You may want to try a passive pre vs using digital volume controls. My understanding

is that digital volume controls work ok for modest to moderate db volume level reduction but degrade sound if you need to significantly reduce volume levels

for normal listening.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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4 hours ago, davide256 said:

An active pre-amp can add its own signature/limitations. You may want to try a passive pre vs using digital volume controls. My understanding

is that digital volume controls work ok for modest to moderate db volume level reduction but degrade sound if you need to significantly reduce volume levels

for normal listening.

 

My preamp is a decent passive; still prefer digital volume.  

 

I attenuate by ~12 to 18dbs in JPLAY Femto which is now my preferred software for PGGB files.  

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18 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

If you already have a convolution filter, current PGGB can also do EQ, something you can give a try if you so wish.

Hi ZB.

 

I am trying out some filters made with Acourate. 

After correction, the overall level is -6dB down when compared with no correction.

When plugging the filter into PGGB-EQ, does the track get processed with at -6dB as well?

PH SR7 > MacMini+Uptone MMK Mod > Audirvana 3.2 > re-clocked D-LInk switch/LPS1.1 > sMS-200Ultra/LPS1.2 > tX-USBUltra/PH SR7 > Chord BluDave > Focal Utopia(Norne Silver) or Voxativ 9.87/ Stereo REL G1 Mk II

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22 minutes ago, HeeBroG said:

Hi ZB.

 

I am trying out some filters made with Acourate. 

After correction, the overall level is -6dB down when compared with no correction.

When plugging the filter into PGGB-EQ, does the track get processed with at -6dB as well?

PGGB-EQ tries to keep the original level when possible without clipping, so unless the track has a low dynamic range, the level can still be close to the original. The exact  attenuation will depend on the track. 

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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Hi all audiophile friends here,

 

Anyone who can share experience with Aurender family for PGGB 8FS (PCM 384) USB output? Did you hear any difference?

 

Saw Aurender W20SE supports 16FS (PCM 768) and it seems to be one of the best (or THE best) sources for 16FS, 24BIT, USB > SRC-DX > Chord Dave?

 

Thank you if anyone have some story to share.

 

 

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I've the Chord Qutest and HMS, and I still want to keep the HMS.

 

And, Windows 10 with 32GB RAM, with Jplay installed. I need to purchase 2TB SSD to improve the processing performance. My music collections are mainly redbook format.

 

My question is:

 

Can I output the PGGB files to HMS via USB, and DUAL BNCs to Qutest?

 

Thank you!

 

P/S: The Qutest is 7m away from the HMS, and PC is just next tot he HMS.

 

 

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1 hour ago, peterlim8 said:

I've the Chord Qutest and HMS, and I still want to keep the HMS.

 

My question is:

 

Can I output the PGGB files to HMS via USB, and DUAL BNCs to Qutest?

 

Thank you!

 

P/S: The Qutest is 7m away from the HMS, and PC is just next tot he HMS.

 

 

Simple answer, yes you can do that. You will lose 3db going through HMS (even in non-upsampling mode), so will need to adjust volume level in your playback software to achieve your current output levels.

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3 hours ago, LowOrbit said:

Simple answer, yes you can do that. You will lose 3db going through HMS (even in non-upsampling mode), so will need to adjust volume level in your playback software to achieve your current output levels.

 

Thanks for the prompt reply! I also realised that you had a Matrix Audio Element H USB card, I guess it's better than the onboard USB port.

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6 hours ago, peterlim8 said:

I've the Chord Qutest and HMS, and I still want to keep the HMS.

 

And, Windows 10 with 32GB RAM, with Jplay installed. I need to purchase 2TB SSD to improve the processing performance. My music collections are mainly redbook format.

 

My question is:

 

Can I output the PGGB files to HMS via USB, and DUAL BNCs to Qutest?

 

Thank you!

 

P/S: The Qutest is 7m away from the HMS, and PC is just next tot he HMS.

 

 

Yes that can be done, HMS will still decrease gain by 3dB and Noise shape, so for best results set PGGB to 16fS/32 bits 'Dither only'.

 

You can also consider USB->Fiber optic->USB for the 7m run to Qutest to directly use 32bit Noise shaped PGGB files into USB of Qutest. I have currently use Adnaco Fiber to USB in the past have also Monoprice  fiber USB extender for a similar application. 

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

You can also consider USB->Fiber optic->USB for the 7m run to Qutest to directly use 32bit Noise shaped PGGB files into USB of Qutest. I have currently use Adnaco Fiber to USB in the past have also Monoprice  fiber USB extender for a similar application. 

 

Thanks ZB for the info and setting recommendations, and Adnaco looks interesting.

 

Btw, silly me, in fact I can just jplay any HiRes from the PC to HMS via USB to verify any connectivity issues.

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6 hours ago, peterlim8 said:

 

Thanks for the prompt reply! I also realised that you had a Matrix Audio Element H USB card, I guess it's better than the onboard USB port.

Well spotted Peter, yes I do have and use the Matrix Audio USB card. It works very well - the key (and I suspect the same applies to other such cards) is good external power. I think that, more than any other factor, determines the results. 

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6 hours ago, peterlim8 said:

 

Thanks ZB for the info and setting recommendations, and Adnaco looks interesting.

 

Btw, silly me, in fact I can just jplay any HiRes from the PC to HMS via USB to verify any connectivity issues.

I use https://www.adnaco.com/products/s3a/ in my music server (but i ordered it without FSP or the fiber optic cable), the USB endpoint is powered by SR5T but the PCIe card does not have a separate power. However I power the Server with two rails of SR7T, one for CPU one for MB. 

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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6 minutes ago, Mark Labbett said:

just got the trial and i am unable to process more than 5 tracks in an album even when i restart the program, once it see's that the other track have been done it says track limit reached and i don't see how to select the other tracks ????

Please see below (it is also part of the email you recieve with trial license)

image.thumb.png.d3878a399d88e7b9df34e68f2439771e.png

Author of PGGB & RASA, remastero

Update: PGGB-256 is completely revamped, improved, and now uses much less memory

New: PGGB-IT! is a new interface for PGGB 256, supports multi-channel, smaller footprint, more lossless compression options

Free: foo_pggb_rt is a free real-time upsampling plugin for foobar2000 64bit; RASA is a free tool to do FFT analysis of audio tracks

System: TT7 PGI 240v > Paretoaudio Server [SR7T] > Adnaco Fiber [SR5T] >VR L2iSE [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Infinity PC]> QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation RCA> Omega CAMs, JL Sub, Vox Z-Bass/ [QSA Silver fuse, QSA Lanedri Gamma Revelation PC] KGSSHV Carbon CC, Audeze CRBN

 

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