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A toast to PGGB, a heady brew of math and magic


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Thanks for the trial. In my system (Antipodes EX, HQPlayer, TT2, Utopia, iem’s) the sinc-L  filter and 705/768 give similar results. Real time conversion may change this as streaming will be in play. It is good to see more alternatives to the mscaler.

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8 hours ago, mancolh said:

Thanks for the trial. In my system (Antipodes EX, HQPlayer, TT2, Utopia, iem’s) the sinc-L  filter and 705/768 give similar results. Real time conversion may change this as streaming will be in play. It is good to see more alternatives to the mscaler.

UPDATE:

My tests were done using roon-hqplayer with file on a nuc/rock. I moved the file onto the EX’s ssd and switched the output to MPD. Using Rigelian the file was fed directly from the  ssd to the mpd player on the EX. Transient attack, hidden detail, relaxed. Looks like I will be needing a bigger ssd. 

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1 hour ago, Fourlegs said:

 That mirrors what I have found with my Antipodes K50 over the weekend. I wasn't using Roon/HQP, just HQP + HQPD to play the PGGB files but I preferred MPD. It was as if a slight veil had been lifted from the sound and in particular I was able to hear much more detail in the texture of the bass notes. As ever it is a YMMV thing but it is worth experimenting.

Went back and tried HQPD but stil much prefer MPD. I tried Audirvana from a nas but the files stored on the EX with direct playback (no player involved once started) peovide the best results. One issue... when using MPD and then paused or stopped, there is a high pitched squeal heard until restarted. So far this is just with MPD.

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2 hours ago, mrkoven said:

Is there a way 32fs pggb files can conveniently co-exist with HQPe streaming within one library? maybe via euphony stylus?

ideally itd be great if HQPe automatically applies filters when it detects qobuz/tidal, then automatically removes filters when a local file (pggb) is played, etc

Could you set 1N to filtered and xN to none?

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I am unable to convert tracks that are approximately longer than 12 minutes.

Macbook Pro 16gb, trial license

input: redbook

output: 16fs 32 bits auto

dac: TT2

 

The process finishes with no visible warnings. The file plays fine but terminates around 12 minutes.

 

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1 hour ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

At16fs 32 bits, you hit the maximum size for wav files (4GB) around the 12 minute mark. PGGB splits these files into parts for long tracks. The meta data is preserved and the tracks are numbered correctly so they will play gapless. I have it here in the FAQ section: PGGB - FAQ (remastero.com)

 

Is it possible you did not drag all the processed tracks? You can also email me the logs you find in the output album folder (.log and .csv)

I am doing the converting on a Macbook Pro to the internal ssd which is the standard mac format. I placed only a single track in the folder to be converted. I got a 7 gb single track out. This has been the same for three tests of different tracks. I will email you the info when back home. The sound is awesome!

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3 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I found that my computer had problems doing the track/file split for long tracks when they were loose single tracks. With an album here were no issues.

@Zaphod Beeblebrox In fact I have just tried to process a 17 1/2 min track that normally processes just fine when in an album but when it was loose by itself it stopped processing at the 12 min track length.

The first time I noticed this was with a full album - Close to the Edge. I have emailed @Zaphod Beeblebrox the logs and screen shot. 

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3 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

Found the smoking gun. Patch issued (v1.0.82): PGGB - Offline remastering (remastero.com)

 

It should fix the issue with longer 32bit tracks not playing beyond 12 minutes and broken meta data. Thet tracks were supposed be split at 4Gb but they were not.

The fix works perfectly. I needed to use my tagging program to change the track numbers on the file names to match the embedded track numbers for my MPD player. Thanks for all the fish.

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6 hours ago, Fourlegs said:


I will try today!

 

if my ears tell me right, I am in any case hearing better sound quality with my MPD playback instead of what you use so even if there is a slight trade off with wavpack it might be less noticeable. just kiddin’ 🤪

What are you using as a controller for your MPD? Rigelian is mine.

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22 minutes ago, Fourlegs said:

I use Mconnect. I have not been able to get Rigelian to work because it does not support UPnP on my server in the Antipodes (or at least that is what the Rigelian developer had told me).

You must be running a dlna server on your antipodes as mconnect cannot see my library. Audirvana works well also. Unfortunately it means my library is on the Audirvana host and then streamed to the EX. The beauty of MPD on the EX and files on the EX is they never leave the EX when being played. I am going to experiment some more with the HQPlayer embedded on the EX. Audirvana also plays to it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What are people’s thoughts about wavpack. I don’t hear any change in the sound other than expectation bias. The space gain is appreciable and they play on my equipment. But as there may be hidden negatives I am still doing any remasters in wav. Thoughts?

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I am not a filter designer and understand only minimally the jargon. I have owned mscaler, hqplayer and now PGGB. To my ears the sound improvement is most noticeable with PGGB. Each upsampler has it's merits and of course ymmv. Thanks ZB for clarifying this.

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3 hours ago, Zaphod Beeblebrox said:

I would suggest Mac Pro over iMac. When you gargle-blast DSD you need cooling. Get A 2010 or newer Mac Pro that can run Mojave or newer (though Big Sur would be nice for future proofing), upgrade RAM to 128GB. @kennyb123 or @Fourlegs  or @ray-dude may be able to provide further advice as they are using high powered Macs. Of course if you are open to using a PC, you can custom build one for cheaper. You will be able to go up to 4Billion taps on some DSDs.

 

Though a word of caution on DSD512, I do not know if there are any that are being offered that were truly recorded at DSD512. If the original source is DSD256, then it is better to go for DSD256. I have gargle-blasted a few DSD256 recordings from NativeDSD that I was quite happy with.

 

 

The iMac 27" has upgradeable ram. That is what I purchased my license for and upgraded the ram to 40gb. 8gb original, added 32gb. My 2014 and 2018 MacbookPro are not upgradeable on the ram (at least by the layman).

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2 hours ago, chrille said:

Thanks for the info but which model of iMac 27" are you referring to?

There are quite a few of those.

I already have  a 2011 iMac 27" but it does not support Mojave. And according to what I have been told or even better Big Sur is what is needed to  do processing?

Could you give me more details of yours, year model and which processor it has and can you process hi res 24/96 and 24/192 and DSD 64 and DSD 128 files.

I do not care if it takes a while to process as long as it does not go up in flames!

Another option for me could be to get a Mac Mini with 64 gigabyte ram.

But the ones I have seen for sale second hand or refurbished mostly have i3 processors onboard and I don´t know if that is enough?

 

I do not intend to buy a  MAC PRO just to do PGGB processing.

 

I want something that does the job but at as LOW a price as possible.

I may upgrade from my old mbp 17" when the new  M2 ones materialize.

But that may not happen soon.

The only real need for anything faster or better than what I already have is for PGGB.

No other reason really.

My ancient mbp  takes16 gigabyte ram so it is good enough for RAM  memory playback .

My old mbp 2011 sounds very good indeed via Audirvana + or Pure Music player  Qutest/Mscaler  directly via usb and PGGB tesfiles.

Actually the usb cable that came with my Mscaler nothing more fancy.

Virtually noisefree via usb.  Quite amazing and even a bit addictive.

I have already played the files I got from Rajiv about 30 times each and all three sound very good indeed played this way both via speakers and headphones.

No super-expensive Server or other extras involved.

But I can say that this is perhaps the closest I have heard from my systems to how mic-feed at recording sessions can sound.

My reference point for digital consumer HI FI used to be Dave/Mscaler but now I am not so sure any longer, with my little Qutest sounding like a "mini Dave" all on its own when fed PGGB´d hi res files.

Dave /PGGB maybe ?

 

 

Cheers Chrille

 

 

Here is my iMac. So far there have been no hiccups remastering.

 

30744413-D117-474B-820B-7E8B81A249FB.jpeg

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For users of servers with embedded HQPlayer. I’ve noticed significantly better hqplayer pggb playback by using the embedded on the EX (Antipodes server) rather than a desktop version. Files for embedded are on the EX. Files for desktop are on usb drive attached to desktop machine.

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6 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

As someone who just redid almost 300 albums because I switched from 32-bit to 24-bit files (for using the SRC-DX bridge with my DAVE), redoing the upsampling is not that big a deal. If you wait for a *rumored* machine, you're just depriving yourself. Even at a cap of 256M taps, PGGB makes a massive improvement over the native file!

 

BTW - during the initial development, I must have redone my albums 4-5 times as ZB made incremental improvements. I did not regret it one iota.

Would you mind explaining why you are going from 32 bits to 24 bits and using the SRC-DX. I have one as well but it is not hooked up at present. I have done all my rips at 16fs 32 bits for my TT2.

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1 hour ago, Fourlegs said:

 

 

Dave's BNC inputs only support up to 24 bit so if you feed it 32 bit it will be converted down to 24 bit so best to set PGGB to process to 24 bit. Also, if one is using HQP on 'pass through' it should also be configured to output 24 bit.

Thanks. On a TT2 what is the advantage going dual bnc over usb? Assuming one has the src-dx already. My usb is from an EX.

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I posted this on head-fi in the Antipodes thread.

 

I’ve been redoing all my pggb to 16fs 24b and actually prefer it to 32b. The extra space recouped is nice too. I have tried playback in every way available to me... roon direct, roon and hqplayer, hqplayer with hqpdcontrol, hqplayer with client player, lms and squeezelite and mpd. I’ve settled on roon and hqplayer. Many of the golden ears (not derogatory) have left roon. To me it is just too essential a part of my musical enjoyment and workflow. The best quality is probably mpd but the roon curation makes up for the slight difference with hqplayer. 

I would be interested to hear what other users of pggb have settled on.

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2 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

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Does mconnect point the player directly to the source or does the file go through mconnect on it’s way to the player. i.e. after starting can you disable mconnect and the song keeps playing? For optimum quality direct play is preferred. 

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1 hour ago, Fourlegs said:

Mconnect is not in the signal path. You can pull the Ethernet cable from the rear of the streamer and the file/album keeps playing. 

OK.. I'll give that another listen. I think mconnest is a dlna/ipnp player. I was trying not to run dlna server and using true MPD applications such as Cantata, Rigelian etc. The later MPD versions use direct access to the file system on the  Antipodes server.

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2 hours ago, Fourlegs said:

Mconnect is not in the signal path. You can pull the Ethernet cable from the rear of the streamer and the file/album keeps playing. 

I revisited mconnect. The quality is right there with Rigelian. Pulling the ethernet quits at the end of the track while Rigelian quits at the end of the album. Terminating mconnect completely by a second up swipe terminates playback immediately. Rigelian continues to play. Interesting little things which make one wonder on the path of the file.

 

I am getting such a dramatic noticeable improvement with PGGB through roon/hgpe that it still wins out for me. Time to listen.

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