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How to demonstrate MQA's leaky filter


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Another thing about MQA has leaked. 

How many surprises for the inquisitive ones have those guys prepared.? x-D

What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well.
It helps men to rise above themselves.
 
  ―  Albert Camus, The Plague.

 

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WOW - amazing!

 

Although the others on this board also deserve this - you know who you are...

 

Were Not Worthy GIFs | Tenor

 

Current:  JRiver 24 on Win 10 PC (AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with 32 GB RAM) or Daphile on an I5-2500K with 16 GB RAM

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OK, what do I miss ... ?

 

You play a track that is supposed to be 88.2 after unfolding and you show context above 22.05 ?

Nothing wrong with that.

 

So I must have missed some data point here.

Thanks.

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XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

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34 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

OK, what do I miss ... ?

 

You play a track that is supposed to be 88.2 after unfolding and you show context above 22.05 ?

Nothing wrong with that.

 

So I must have missed some data point here.

Thanks.

Sorry, should have clarified in the original post that this is intended  to be done using a track that came from a 44.1khz master. (Roon will tell you the original master of an MQA file or track on Tidal so you can check if it was ever really high-res or not, most MQA releases came from 44.1khz).

This test could also be done to demonstrate leaky filterer in the 'renderer' by recording the analog output of a renderer tricked into using it's MQA filter on a normal file using Mansr's tool. https://code.videolan.org/mansr/mqa/-/tree/master (I wasn't able to actually get that working, but I had my own track published in MQA so used that instead).


MQA Core Decoder (with HQP sinc-M in blue for comparison, both digital recordings):

v6NEQx6OiU.thumb.png.d7526d6c4c9aebce9a0f8b1effa52b7a.png

MQA Renderer Filter in Blue, ifi GTO filter in white (both analog recordings):

YHV60Ms5ak.thumb.png.1d3793d6e8878b101e86e51c2b93ac24.png

HQPlayer sinc-L TDPF to show device limitations in the above comparison (analog recording):

bJXOs61ftf.thumb.png.d13fd6aadfaaf6aa9384d6f8cd0b5f0d.png

https://youtube.com/goldensound

Roon -> HQPlayer -> SMS200 Ultra/SPS500 -> Holo Audio May (Wildism Edition) -> Holo Audio Serene (Wildism Edition) -> Benchmark AHB2 -> Hifiman Susvara

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4 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

8) Analyze
Open up 'Spek', and drag your WAV file into it. (Alternatively can use any FFT or Spectrum analyzer)

 

Audacity has an FFT function - would it be simpler to use that?

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2 hours ago, GoldenOne said:

(Roon will tell you the original master of an MQA file or track on Tidal so you can check if it was ever really high-res or not, most MQA releases came from 44.1khz).

 

No, it will not (correctly). And today this is more difficult than you think (a couple of months ago it was more easy).

Best would be if you give me a track (with Tidal) ID that does not come from a 44.1 "master" but higher (88.2 at least). You will see it shows the same, but I will also show you from my own software how reality is. You will see ...

 

Your assumption that this is a leaky filter is (IMO) not right, already because it does not look like it. The filter will be leaky all right, but you can't show that by means of a file which is (was !) natively 88.2 or more.

I will show you myself later. But first I need a Tidal Album ID from you, where Tidal tells it is 88.2 or higher. OK ?

Note please : If Tidal tells it is 44.1, there is not even a need to show anything, because Roon upsamples 2x by default. This is quite crucial, especially if you don't know that. :-)

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XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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2 hours ago, PeterSt said:

... because Roon upsamples 2x by default.

 

Yes, this is something that I stumbled across myself in my 'apples-to-apples comparison' thread. Roon will 'upsample' all 44.1 and 48 MQA to 88.2 and 96 respectively. I say 'upsample', but I think it's more like simply increasing the sample rate with no filtering, hence all the imaging above Nyquist. A player like XXHighEnd, which is capable of decoding MQA, does not do this.

 

MQA decoding does give real new information above Nyquist for 88.2 and 96 MQA files. MQA rendering is where the leaky filters come into play.

 

Mani.

Phasure Mach III audio PC -> HQPlayer/XXHighEnd @24/705.6 -> Phasure NOS1 DAC -> First Watt F5-cloned mono amps -> Tune Audio Anima horn speakers

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8 hours ago, manisandher said:

MQA rendering is where the leaky filters come into play.

 

Correct. And that happens only in an MQA DAC, unless someone deliberately mimics such a filter in software (like XXHighEnd can do as well - software can do anything). So this always invalidates this topic/thread;

 

A file which is 88.2 or higher, has been folded into 24/44.1 or 24/48 and after unfolding (what e.g. the Tidal player can do, or Audirvana or XXHighEnd or in the end Roon too for that matter), the energy between 22.05 and 44.1 (or 24 and 48) is real unless coincidentally MQA was given an upsampled file to begin with. I still never saw one, although they may exist.

 

So really, this topic is moot. Still the MQA naysayers (like Frederick and even me) can jump in and claim the sh*ttiness of MQA, but they do that everywhere. In this thread it is not related ...

 

PS: But watch out for the 16/44.1 MQA's these days. They are a whole different bunch with their own anomalies and pestering and faking and taking (Tidal) out the original albums and what not.

So yeh, yuk.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2      Ethernet^2     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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17 hours ago, PeterSt said:

PS: But watch out for the 16/44.1 MQA's these days. They are a whole different bunch with their own anomalies and pestering and faking and taking (Tidal) out the original albums and what not.

So yeh, yuk.

 

There's also lot of originally 44.1/24 or 48/24 material that is available as MQA. For example through Tidal.

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

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