How Can I Route Online Music, in 2021, From My iPad To My DAC To Allow Me To Play It Back On My Audio System? Need Your Help!

[TubeLover]

Hello, I asked this question once, a couple years back. I have both a paid online music service that I access via my iPad, and also an online FM station whose archives I listen to. 

 

At the time, I temporarily was able to use the "shairware" setting on my Sonore Ultra Rendu, but then problems kept arising, and became worse and worse, and it was pointed out here that there were some bugs, either in shaireware and/or the implementation. As soon as I stopped using the shairware setting, all of the problems instantly disappeared. For a while the point was moot, as I was looking for a new home, and then spent countless months packing and moving, and unpacking and setting up the new house. Now, its driving me crazy that I currently have no option to listen to these musical programs on anything other than the speakers included on my iPad Pro. 

 

By now, in 2021, there must be something I can buy to accomplish what I am trying to do? Any help would be immensely appreciated. Thanks.

 

JC

 

[stefano_mbp]

If an hardwired connection is not a issue you could use the Apple Camera Connection Kit to connect your iPad to the dac.

 

[DuckToller]

Salut JC,

congratulations to your new place, I'd guess it is not anymore up the hill and much  better suited for your knees and your back problems.

AFAIK (Apple gear is only for my family and rarely for me) you could use any free digital entry of your recent DAC  (USB(COAX etc) and connect it with a streaming endpoint (media box) that does airplay/airplay2, has coax or Toslink output (I assume you have the U-Rendu connected via USB)  and perhaps Bluetooth, as this would be the third option after USB adapter and Airplay.

I am not sure if you doesn't want airplay anymore in your network or only avoid the shairport software in the U-rendu?

 I think the bandwidth with Airplay is restricted to 16-bit digital audio files at 48 kHz (i.e. CD Quality) which could be topped by recent Bluetooth options that offer up to 96hz transfers.
 

I have read that the MI Box (chez DARKO) does Airplay, perhaps that is an adequate solution for your problem?
Cheers, Tom

[R1200CL]

8 hours ago, TubeLover said:

Sonore Ultra Rendu

Where is this getting signal from ? A PC ?

[TubeLover]

To better explain things, the system in my office/den is comprised of two monoblocks, a preamp, a DAC, a Sonic Transporter as Roon server, a Sonore Ultra Rendu as a streamer, and Roon endpoint, and a NAS. 

 

And Tom, yes, no longer being way up on the hill does help. Thanks. Plus I have a lot more room at the new place, which was much needed. I am also not an Apple guy. I am using the iPad as I would need either it, or a Android tablet to run the software from the online music service I use. And, at the time I acquired the iPad, it was the only format they supported. I could also use my desktop PC, but that's a whole other issue in terms of connecting and routing music of good quality to the DAC. At least the last I knew. 

 

I originally tried using an Apple camera connection, but all I got was connectivity errors on the iPad. Also, in the setup at the new house, I would need a about  an eight foot cord, minimum, to connect directly from the iPad to the DAC. It would seem like there simply must be a way to accomplish this. 

[R1200CL]

13 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

To better explain things, the system in my office/den is comprised of two monoblocks, a preamp, a DAC, a Sonic Transporter as Roon server, a Sonore Ultra Rendu as a streamer, and Roon endpoint, and a NAS. 

So you don’t have Qobuz or Tidal, so you can’t use the normal way ?

What service then ? Sonore has some options implemented. Also some services is supported by Qnap. 

[TubeLover]

14 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

So you don’t have Qobuz or Tidal, so you can’t use the normal way ?

What service then ? Sonore has some options implemented. Also some services is supported by Qnap. 

I have both Qobuz and Tidal, which, for this discussion, are irrelevant. The music service in question is "Music From The Hearts Of Space". 

 

JC

[R1200CL]

....that’s possible via Roon. But I think you know that very well. 

I guess a Chromecast Audio can solve things also, if Sonore’s Airplay option isn’t working ?

[Cebolla]

From memory, I believe part of JC's instability problems with the Rendu stemmed from having to manually change its output mode whenever its AirPlay support was occasionally required and then back again for Roon its support.

 

It's a shame that Sonore don't provide seamless constant automatic support for AirPlay for their streaming devices in parallel with the other supported streaming mechanisms, so avoiding the need to manually change the output mode, l can't think of any other AirPlay supporting streamer that requires a manual override setting for whenever AirPlay is needed (that includes Raspberry Pi multi-streaming mechanism supporting ones I've built myself using the same Linux based open source Shairport Sync AirPlay audio player that the Sonore devices use).   

[R1200CL]

18 hours ago, TubeLover said:

The music service in question is "Music From The Hearts Of Space". 

Got this mail:

 

Two ways:

1. Use our app on your iPhone/iPad/iPod touch and use Airplay to send audio from your device/our app to Roon. For the next week or 10 days you’ll have to use our  beta app for iOS, which will be in the app store soon. I’ll append instructions for getting the beta app now. 

 

2. Use Sonos. We have a very limited integration with the Sonos systems. If you are a HOS subscriber, you can add Hearts of Space to the list of your music services in Sonos, then you will be able to stream HOS controlling the stream with your Sonos controller. I’m not completely familiar with using Roon this way, but there is supposed to be compatibility between Sonos and Roon.

 

This is new, so let us know how this works out for you. 

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Here’s the scoop about our new advanced Beta app for iOS:

 

Our brand new iPhone/iPad app is in the final stages of beta testing before release to the App Store. You might want to try it, as it has direct access to the all music, including making and editing playlists in the app, and a lot more. The new app is fully compatible with Airplay and Bluetooth, including HomePods, and all native iOS features and controls. All performance bugs have been resolved, the test app is safe, and will be identical to the app release except that for release the ability to subscribe will be activated (Apple doesn’t allow purchases through test apps). 

 

 

1. Delete the current HOS app. You can get it back from the App Store anytime before we release the new update if you want to go back to it, but I doubt you will want that after using the new app. 

 

2. From the App Store, search for and download Testflight (it’s Apple’s own app for testing). 

 

3. With Testflight open, tap this link:

 

https://testflight.apple.com/join/dhVi0VMF

 

Sign in to the test app with your normal HOS email address and password, and off you go into a whole new HOS app, much more like the website than ever before. On an iPad, it’s actually identical to our website, but an app!

 

Let us know what you think. 

 

Best regards,

 

Leyla Hill | [email protected]

Hearts of Space | Slow Music for Fast Times

http://www.hos.com

 

 

[TubeLover]

Thanks very much for the assistance. While I do not own any Sonos equipment, I'll certainly try the beta app out asapa. 

 

JC

[TubeLover]

I've not been able to get things to work with HOS and Roon. I wrote to Roon and got absolutely nowhere (no surprise there) earlier, I then wrote to HOS, and included the message that R1200CL provided above.

Here is the reply that I got today:

 

"

Support-at-HOS ([email protected])To:you Details

 

The simplest directions I can give you to use Airplay with our app and an Airplay compatible wireless speaker are these:

 

1. Make sure both your streaming device (phone, laptop, etc.) are on the same Wi-Fi network, both are on, with Airplay turned on (your streaming device), and both are Airplay compatible.

 

2. Start music playing from the HOS app.

 

3. If on a laptop or an iPad, tap the Airplay icon in the player. 

If on an iPhone, tap the Airplay icon in our “expanded player.” To see the expanded player, tap the blank space in the mini player at the bottom of the page. In the expanded player, tap the Sirplay icon.

The Airplay icon looks like this. 

Airplay then searches your Wi-Fi network and shows you all Airplay-compatible devices on it.

 

4. Tap to select the device you want the music to go to and come out of.

 

Our new app is Airplay enabled. The problem may be that Roon may still not be Airplay 2 compatible. Roon apparently was compatible with Airplay 1. But that was replaced by Apple with Airplay 2. Depending on how Roon was configured, yours may or  may not be backwardly compatible. So you might have used our old app with Roon, but unless Roon has also updated to Airplay 2, it may not be compatible. I really don’t and can’t know: there are literally hundreds of wireless speakers out there that purport to be compatible with the two most widely used  'casting protocols, Bluetooth and Airplay. Roon may be a special case in that it started out as compatibly with Airplay, but seemingly is refusing to update to Airplay 2, much to the annoyance of many of its users. 

 

Google “Is Roon Airplay compatible,” and you will get a lot of backing and forthing between Roon and its unhappy users about this, pretty contentious. If things are the same with Roon now as they were in 2020, Roon is letting you down, not HOS. 

 

In any case, here are Roon’s instructions for using Airplay on their devices:

 

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/airplay-setup

 

But unless they have become Airplay 2 compatible, the first line of this is no longer true. “Roon has excellent support for most Airplay devices out there,” means they support old Airplay devices, but not current ones. 

 

Here’s their troubleshooting page for setting up on Airplay:

 

https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/faq-i-m-having-problems-setting-up-airplay

 

And this:

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/does-roon-1-8-support-airplay-2/141111

 

And yet more info here:

 

https://www.cnet.com/how-to/apple-airplay-2-everything-you-need-to-know/

 

Bottomline: Hearts of Space supports the Airplay as mandated by Apple. We also support Bluetooth. Users should be able to use both of these easily. Roon has some very convoluted instructions for using Bluetooth, which as a Roon user you may understand. I don’t. 

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/bluetooth-support/24973

 

The main thing is that these protocols — Airplay and Bluetooth — are made to be pretty transparent to the user, as you can see in the instructions for using Airplay in our app. If Roon doesn’t comply with these, sorry to say, we can’t do anything about it.

 

Sonos, is a completely different, competing system to Roon. New Sonos gear is completely Airplay compatible. Hearts of Space has an old and limited integration as a music service within Sonos. But because Sonos is now Airplay compatible, and some of their speakers are Bluetooth compatible as well, we likely will let that go and have our subscribers rely on Airplay and Bluetooth. 

 

Hope all this helps. I spent quite a bit of time researching this and writing it up. Roon does not seem to be very straightforward or transparent in their explanations for their relationship with Airplay. If you can’t make Roon work with Airplay 2, as above, please contact their Technical or Customer Support. 

 

I’ll be interested to hear your experience when you try the above with Roon. 

 

 

Best wishes,

 

 

Leyla Hill | [email protected]

Hearts of Space | Slow Music for Fast Times

[TubeLover]

It would seem that Roon won't play with the now current Apple Airplay 2. And, it further seems as if they may have no intentions of doing so based on some other things I've come across. 

 

This entire situation is driving me nuts. generally 21 hours a week of the time I am listening in my office/den is related to the the streaming music service Hearts Of Space. If I can't find a way to route that music from my iPad to  my audio system, I may as well sell it and give up 60% of my weekly listening. :( 

 

And Roon is close to useless for any help. I worked with them on another issue, sometime back,  and there were probably forty vague or semi-unrelated e-mails that went back and forth, with no resolution or meaningful help at all. I love the Roon interface, but not much else. 

 

I have no idea where to go at this point. It's extremely disheartening. 

 

JC

[AudioDoctor]

Do you have a Raspberry Pi4? One of those with RopieeeXL can accept a bluetooth stream and output that via usb to a DAC.

[TubeLover]

25 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

Do you have a Raspberry Pi4? One of those with RopieeeXL can accept a bluetooth stream and output that via usb to a DAC.

I do not, but perhaps I should consider one? But isn't bluetooth  audio transmission quite limited in quality? I tried it once with headphones and it wasn't great, and also did not work well, granted, there were some distance issues so YMMV. 

 

Is there any way to run that RopieeXL software on a Windoes PC? My problem with the Raspberry Pi4, is that you apparently start with the bare board, need a case, power supply and monitor. My Windows pc is literally sitting six feet from my DAC. I'm not sure where I would be able to put another monitor (plus have to buy one) for the Raspbery Pi 4. 

 

JC

[stefano_mbp]

58 minutes ago, TubeLover said:

I'm not sure where I would be able to put another monitor

You don’t need a monitor, raspberry runs as a black box.

You just need to install RoPieee XL, configure it through its web interface and … forget it.

If you don’t like diy bundles are available

… some examples

with dac

 https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/bundles/hifiberry-dac-bundle-4/
with spdif output

 https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/bundles/hifiberry-digi-bundle-4/

 https://allo.com/sparky/digione-player.html

To use your pc you could try GentooPlayer that can be installed on pc or raspberry but it is not free.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, TubeLover said:

I do not, but perhaps I should consider one? But isn't bluetooth  audio transmission quite limited in quality? I tried it once with headphones and it wasn't great, and also did not work well, granted, there were some distance issues so YMMV. 

 

Is there any way to run that RopieeXL software on a Windoes PC? My problem with the Raspberry Pi4, is that you apparently start with the bare board, need a case, power supply and monitor. My Windows pc is literally sitting six feet from my DAC. I'm not sure where I would be able to put another monitor (plus have to buy one) for the Raspbery Pi 4. 

 

JC

 

Heres a crazy idea, can you play that service o your PC? If so, just get a mini stereo to RCA cable of appropriate length and tell your computer to use that output?

 

I have a monoprice one here that cost less than 2 bucks and works fine.

[TubeLover]

10 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Heres a crazy idea, can you play that service o your PC? If so, just get a mini stereo to RCA cable of appropriate length and tell your computer to use that output?

 

I have a monoprice one here that cost less than 2 bucks and works fine.

I've identified that the music service is capable of running on the PC, which I was not previously aware of, and, I believe is a relatively new feature.  Now I'm just wondering how difficult it is to direct the pc to use that output. As there are many times when I need it to route to the pc sound bar for videos, etc. and would need to easily swap back and forth. Would I also need to drop a few hundred dollars on a high quality computer audio sound card to ensure the signal quality is good? 

 

 

Great idea. Looking into it!

 

JC

[AudioDoctor]

Tell them to stream in FLAC like a normal internet radio station and then you can manually enter it into Roon.

[TubeLover]

12 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

Tell them to stream in FLAC like a normal internet radio station and then you can manually enter it into Roon.

Somehow, I don't think they will buy into that, as they only recently upgraded their sound quality, unfortunately. But damn, that would make life simple. Which, of course, seldom happens. :(

 

JC

[AudioDoctor]

Anyway, don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, order the cable from Monoprice and plug it into the green mini stereo plug on your PC motherboard and listen.

[hopkins]

Isn't the obvious answer to use an airport express with a toslink output to the DAC?  I'm not sure they are made any longer, but you can find them easily second hand. Here's the first that came up on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124724682035?hash=item1d0a2b9d33:g:OvIAAOSwq9ZgnuHc

 

The audio output on the back can be used both for analog out and toslink out (requires a tolskink cable with a mini-jack).

[TubeLover]

3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Anyway, don't make this more complicated than it needs to be, order the cable from Monoprice and plug it into the green mini stereo plug on your PC motherboard and listen.

Good point. 

 

JC

[TubeLover]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

Isn't the obvious answer to use an airport express with a toslink output to the DAC?  I'm not sure they are made any longer, but you can find them easily second hand. Here's the first that came up on ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/124724682035?hash=item1d0a2b9d33:g:OvIAAOSwq9ZgnuHc

 

The audio output on the back can be used both for analog out and toslink out (requires a tolskink cable with a mini-jack).

I've gone through four airport express units, three that were used/refurbs. They also are not routinely reliable. 

 

JC

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

AirPort Express replacement?

 

SOUNDFORM™ CONNECT Audio Adapter with AirPlay  2 

 

https://www.belkin.com/us/adapters/audio-video/soundform-connect-audio-adapter-with-airplay-2/p/p-auz002/