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Time Out: How Dave Brubeck Changed Jazz


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5 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

 

THIS BELOW IS MY OPINION, never intended to hurt anyone's feelings....

 

I truly don't like the idea of any one race owning a tradition,  or might I say -- technology.   This kind of thing degrades into an insanely divisive type thing.

 

There  is a current political divisive expediency that a race owns a bad or good previous tradition.  This world should be all about people and individuals life and happiness.  How can a race sanely claim anything that I have done or thought/idea that I have had (whether or not it is a worthwhile thing :-)).

 

It doesn't make any sense to me -- and I am not a lefty wakko, nor right winger wakko -- just a wakko.   What ever happened to true liberalism, acceptance and melting-pot?

Doesn't it exist any more in some peoples minds?   What should it be:  whats yours is mine, but whats mine is mine also?

 

If there is 'race ownership', then there should be rules for it, including about everything.  People of one race shouldn't be able to own a car, yet another race cannot

eat peanut butter?   Only cities of a certain race can use traffic control signs?  In my view, the concept of race ownership is totally insane -- this includes that of

culture.

 

 

Mr. Marsalis obviously thinks otherwise. As for me, I don't think anyone would have a good enough reason to think something is his or her own. That includes thoughts and feelings as well. We are all captives of certain cultural prejudices, nothing more.

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8 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Mr. Marsalis obviously thinks otherwise. As for me, I don't think anyone would have a good enough reason to think something is his or her own. That includes thoughts and feelings as well. We are all captives of certain cultural prejudices, nothing more.

About thinking that someone really owns something IS a cultural matter.  I am just talking about practicality -- but I do agree that some kinds of ideas are silly to own, but the cost of creation of an idea, even if other ideas used as inputs -- that needs to be considered.

Believe me -- I know that creation of new things is VERY costly in time and money.  I shouldn't be compelled to give the results of my hard work (very hard work) for free, right?  Just because I am agreeable in certain instances, there are still rights of ownership.   RIght  now, I don't have to feed a family, so I can give my work-product away.   Some people REALLY DO need to feed their kids, and society as a group has generally done a poor job of top-down management and supply.   Each of us needs to participate in taking care of ourselves, and part of that is controlling work product -- and sometimes very costly-to-create work product can be intellectual property.


When race can claim an idea -- that is just crazy.  With that kind of thinking, Mr Marsalis better be careful about what he wishes for.   In fact, NO-ONE wins.   There is nothing special about culture either -- again, people should be VERY CAREFUL about what they wish for.

 

 

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7 hours ago, AnotherSpin said:

In fact, there are two opposing schools of thought. One argues that jazz improvisation must be based on the historic African-American tradition, the other is based on the thesis that improvisation is largely free from tradition and can draw its inspiration from anywhere - a widely documented dispute between Wynton Marsalis and Keith Jarrett. Accordingly, adherents of the former view can have a claim against any white musician.

 

It is a bit limiting to think of Jazz only as an improvisatory music. Also, there is just as much improvisation in Rock as in Jazz. But that's another topic. I love this quote of Coleman Hawkins, when asked by a reporter for advice to young musicians:

 

"If they think they are doing something new they ought to do what I do every day. I spend at least two hours every day listening to Johann Sebastian Bach, and man, it's all there. If they want to learn to improvise around a theme, which is the essence of jazz (adding blue notes), they should learn from the master. He never wastes a note, and he knows where every note is going and when to bring it back. Some of these cats go way out and forget where they began or what they started to do. Bach will clear it up for them".

 

Had America not been so segregated for so many years, this whole question would probably be viewed very differently.  For many years, bands could not even be mixed (they wouldn't be able to tour the South otherwise), they were playing in different venues, to different audiences. High paying jobs were reserved to white musicians (ex: studio sessions for radio), muscian's unions were segregated, etc... 

 

There's an excellent documentary on Count Basie  which highlights some of these aspects (though it is not the central theme). There is also an interesting segment talking about the  "radical"  movements in the late 60s accusing Basie and his wife of being "Uncle Toms" - simply because they were more "integrated" (i.e. mixing socially) while his wife had in fact been very supportive and active in civil rights. So things were not simple in those days (though I say this as the Chauvin trial is unfolding...).

 

 

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2 hours ago, hopkins said:

Also, there is just as much improvisation in Rock as in Jazz.

??????

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

 ?????? 

Why are you surprised? 

Because most recorded Rock music has very little improvisation. Even solos are often meticulously recorded and re-recorded. 

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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31 minutes ago, firedog said:

Because most recorded Rock music has very little improvisation. Even solos are often meticulously recorded and re-recorded. 

 

Based on that definition, there's lot of jazz with little improvisation as well. 

Anyway, none  of this is relevant to Dave Brubeck, who was the subject of the thread.

my blog

 

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