Ethernet Surge filter for Audio improvements?

[intothedragon]

Does it make any sense?

This guy claims he's getting much better audio after installing a 15 bucks network surge protector before his streamer.

Article is in German but can easily be translated on Chrome

I'm honestly asking, is this possible? 

[Matias]

I don't know about the one you mentioned but me and a friend both own an Emo System EN-30 ($172.49) and we both liked the improvement they brought to our systems.

https://www.emosystems.com/product/en-30/

[intothedragon]

2 hours ago, Matias said:

I don't know about the one you mentioned but me and a friend both own an Emo System EN-30 ($172.49) and we both liked the improvement they brought to our systems.

https://www.emosystems.com/product/en-30/

Legal mano, and what are the improvements you're feeling with the device? Did you buy for that reason or were you looking for a surge protector? Do you still have the source who recommend you this device so I can inform myself, please?

[soares]

The Delock 62619 is absolutely extraordinary and it costs barely 20$.

 

https://www.lowbeats.de/schnaeppchen-tuning-plus-schutz-netzwerkadapter-delock-62619-mit-galvanischer-trennung/

Just for reference I share with you my setup:

Router>Rj45>oM>SFP>
Buffalo2016>SFP>oM>Rj45>Zen Mkiii>Rj45> Delock 62619>Rj45>eR  (+ MC)>SFP>oR>USB>iR
USB>Phoenix>USB>
DAC.

 

Cheers, 

Jorge

[soares]

5 hours ago, intothedragon said:

Does it make any sense?

This guy claims he's getting much better audio after installing a 15 bucks network surge protector before his streamer.

Article is in German but can easily be translated on Chrome

I'm honestly asking, is this possible? 

Yes it is. I was much in doubt as my Pink faun lan isolator became redundant after the addition of two switches to my setup. But it was so cheap that I couldn’t resist. Glad I did it.  And it’s not just audio but also image. I ordered two more!!! 🤗

[soares]

Just now, soares said:

Yes it is. I was much in doubt as my Pink faun lan isolator became redundant after the addition of two switches to my setup. But it was so cheap that I couldn’t resist. Glad I did it.  And it’s not just audio but also image. I ordered two more!!! 🤗

Amazon Germany still have a couple of units. News spread fast!

[intothedragon]

20 minutes ago, soares said:

The Delock 62619 is absolutely extraordinary and it costs barely 20$.

 

https://www.lowbeats.de/schnaeppchen-tuning-plus-schutz-netzwerkadapter-delock-62619-mit-galvanischer-trennung/

 

Just for reference I share with you my setup:

Router>Rj45>oM>SFP>
Buffalo2016>SFP>oM>Rj45>Zen Mkiii>Rj45> Delock 62619>Rj45>eR  (+ MC)>SFP>oR>USB>iR
USB>Phoenix>USB>
DAC.

 

Cheers, 

Jorge

well, this is the article linked on my post

[intothedragon]

6 minutes ago, soares said:

Yes it is. I was much in doubt as my Pink faun lan isolator became redundant after the addition of two switches to my setup. But it was so cheap that I couldn’t resist. Glad I did it.  And it’s not just audio but also image. I ordered two more!!! 🤗

What improvements are you getting from this Surge protector?

 

A while ago I got a reply from a Oracle Engineer with 25 years experience friend of mine, he has a 30k HiFi System and this is what he wrote to me: 
 

"It's a transformer. Judging by the datasheet, it is not substantially different from what is already in every Ethernet port as mentioned by NTK. Note that the specified isolation voltage is only 1500 Vrms, not the 6 kV claimed by the manufacturer of the tested product. In other words, this device isn't even suitable for the intended purpose. As for the supposed effects on the sound, it's all the usual things magical widgets always do. Forget about it. It's not even particularly funny."

[soares]

29 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

What improvements are you getting from this Surge protector?

 

A while ago I got a reply from a Oracle Engineer with 25 years experience friend of mine, he has a 30k HiFi System and this is what he wrote to me: 
 

"It's a transformer. Judging by the datasheet, it is not substantially different from what is already in every Ethernet port as mentioned by NTK. Note that the specified isolation voltage is only 1500 Vrms, not the 6 kV claimed by the manufacturer of the tested product. In other words, this device isn't even suitable for the intended purpose. As for the supposed effects on the sound, it's all the usual things magical widgets always do. Forget about it. It's not even particularly funny."

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to have their own views concerning cables, switches, reclockers and lan isolators. As you might have seen I’ve tried over the years to get the lowest noise an jitter arriving to my Dac.  I’ve tried a couple of lan  filters, including the Pink Faun that were effective but at some point became redundant as I said earlier. That’s not the case with this. I’d say that it lowered the noise floor contributing to a bigger stage, more micro details and a some better timbre (just a little). To me it was a no brainer. Also image in my Apple TV was sharper and colors were more saturated. So I am convinced. Up to you to try it, or not. You might of course arrive to a different conclusion and that’s perfectly fine. 

[One and a half]

Not so much sure protection, cause the switch or router upstream is usually charcoaled.

The main benefit of the LAN isolator is to break the common mode loop and that it does quite well.

[intothedragon]

4 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Not so much sure protection, cause the switch or router upstream is usually charcoaled.

The main benefit of the LAN isolator is to break the common mode loop and that it does quite well.

what are the effects of common mode loop, please?

[intothedragon]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Well, I guess everyone is entitled to have their own views concerning cables, switches, reclockers and lan isolators. As you might have seen I’ve tried over the years to get the lowest noise an jitter arriving to my Dac.  I’ve tried a couple of lan  filters, including the Pink Faun that were effective but at some point became redundant as I said earlier. That’s not the case with this. I’d say that it lowered the noise floor contributing to a bigger stage, more micro details and a some better timbre (just a little). To me it was a no brainer. Also image in my Apple TV was sharper and colors were more saturated. So I am convinced. Up to you to try it, or not. You might of course arrive to a different conclusion and that’s perfectly fine. 

I'm not a sceptic, I'm just trying to understand with some reason. Which streamer do you have?  also when you notice these improvements, were you using the analog or digital outputs of your streamers? DAC on or off? 

[soares]

18 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

I'm not a sceptic, I'm just trying to understand with some reason. Which streamer do you have?  also when you notice these improvements, were you using the analog or digital outputs of your streamers? DAC on or off? 

All answers are in my earlier message. 🤗

[intothedragon]

16 minutes ago, soares said:

All answers are in my earlier message. 🤗

ohh yeah, now I can see your gear. humm etherRegen, Audioquest, Pink Faun... Well, it makes sense now.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, intothedragon said:

What improvements are you getting from this Surge protector?

 

A while ago I got a reply from a Oracle Engineer with 25 years experience friend of mine, he has a 30k HiFi System and this is what he wrote to me: 
 

"It's a transformer. Judging by the datasheet, it is not substantially different from what is already in every Ethernet port as mentioned by NTK. Note that the specified isolation voltage is only 1500 Vrms, not the 6 kV claimed by the manufacturer of the tested product. In other words, this device isn't even suitable for the intended purpose. As for the supposed effects on the sound, it's all the usual things magical widgets always do. Forget about it. It's not even particularly funny."

 

Those transformers are on every device where you have Ethernet connector, by the specification...

 

What kind of Ethernet cables do you use? If you use shielded ones, the absolute advantage of most of those surge protectors is that they break the shield connection and re-establish the galvanic isolation you'd have with UTP cable.

 

If you use recommended UTP network cables (plastic connector bodies), then those surge protectors don't make such difference and only operate as a surge protector for very high voltage spikes.

 

[intothedragon]

35 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Those transformers are on every device where you have Ethernet connector, by the specification...

 

What kind of Ethernet cables do you use? If you use shielded ones, the absolute advantage of most of those surge protectors is that they break the shield connection and re-establish the galvanic isolation you'd have with UTP cable.

 

If you use recommended UTP network cables (plastic connector bodies), then those surge protectors don't make such difference and only operate as a surge protector for very high voltage spikes.

 

So, there's absolutely ZERO chance that a surge protector would make any difference in audio? 

[soares]

45 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

ohh yeah, now I can see your gear. humm etherRegen, Audioquest, Pink Faun... Well, it makes sense now.

Please don’t look at my audio signature. It’s outdated. I was referencing my actual setup:

Router>Rj45>oM>SFP>
Buffalo2016>SFP>oM>Rj45>Zen Mkiii>Rj45> Delock 62619>Rj45>eR  (+ MC)>SFP>oR>USB>iR
USB>Phoenix>USB>
DAC.
Kind regards, 

Jorge

[plissken]

26 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

So, there's absolutely ZERO chance that a surge protector would make any difference in audio? 

 

You mean over the one that is already there on both sides of the connection (in the switch and in the end device).

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, intothedragon said:

what are the effects of common mode loop, please?

Common mode noise is a conducted rubbish unwanted signal that is created from any semiconductor switching device that with its own capacitance or bolted to a metal surface forms a circuit to its 0V. It's that (very small) voltage that can transmit over signal wires that is troublesome for devices like DACs and clocks therein.

From my own observations, common mode noise reduces sound stage height and depth, creates a point type source image, very much like a mono presentation. 

Common mode noise interferes with resolution of very fine instruments like cymbals, snare, and muffles frequencies like that. 'Air' around instruments is missing.

Common mode noise can be isolated by transformers or a signal's 0V grounded to PE at various points to keep that noise from developing further through the transmission chain. Typically start with at a DC power Supply and bonding the 0V to PE.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, intothedragon said:

So, there's absolutely ZERO chance that a surge protector would make any difference in audio? 

 

Given my earlier statement, depending on your network cabling and overall system topology.

 

[intothedragon]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

You mean over the one that is already there on both sides of the connection (in the switch and in the end device).

yeah, I mean people claiming that a 15 bucks Ethernet surge protector will magically makes their HiFi sounds better 

[plissken]

45 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

yeah, I mean people claiming that a 15 bucks Ethernet surge protector will magically makes their HiFi sounds better 

 

I doubt it as the levels of 50/60Hz mains is already astonishingly low. There was a production run of Raspberry Pi's that have defective magnetics and you could hear all sorts of noise.

 

My approach is to DIY your own end points and use quality parts. I like using wireless personally as it gives me 20-40 feet of air gap. Intel server NIC's are under $20 and Solar Flare and HP PCI-e version 2 8X SFP+ nics are $20 - $30 and then you add your optics.

 

Our clinical engineering will put these suppressors on certain medical equipment to protect them from high voltage spikes and it give 6KVA protection.

[intothedragon]

43 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

My approach is to DIY your own end points and use quality parts. I like using wireless personally as it gives me 20-40 feet of air gap. Intel server NIC's are under $20 and Solar Flare and HP PCI-e version 2 8X SFP+ nics are $20 - $30 and then you add your optics.

Holy cow, I have no idea what you’re talking about. Is this about an optical ethernet connection? Maybe you can send me a picture of the equipment you’re talking? 

[plissken]

Solar Flare SFP+ NIC

 

1GB SX Optics

 

10GB SR Optics

 

Intel Server NIC

[intothedragon]

23 minutes ago, plissken said:

Solar Flare SFP+ NIC

 

1GB SX Optics

 

10GB SR Optics

 

Intel Server NIC

Okay thank you. And all of this is to built optical ethernet? What are the benefits on this connections, please?