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Ethernet cable-from router to streamer.


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This may look like an advertisement. But trust me, it really is not.

 

1.

In the "Phasure" environment we use a two PC setup; one plays the audio (The Audio PC) and the other provides the music files (the Music Server PC). The music files are NOT streamed. Instead they are loaded into memory of the Audio PC (could be 4-5 albums at a time) and they are played from there. Meanwhile, the LAN connection between the two PC's is almost fully shut down. Only that which provides the RDC connection so the (headless) Audio PC can be controlled from the Music Server PC (via WiFi tablet etc. preceding the latter in the chain of now three devices) - remains. It is the leanest possible LAN connection during playback.

 

2.

At some stage people started to ask for making LAN cables in the same fashion as Lush^2 cables we provided at the time. Thus, configurable for the shielding. Usually after two or three people ask for something, we at Phasure start making it. After that, sort of hell breaks loose because "all" people suddenly want it.

But not me.

I hardly believe in all these matters, but, when dozens of people start to genuinely (I don't even try to sell it) report such and so improvements, I may dive in too. Btw, I am always last because I don't pay. Other people keep on having priority for quite ever.

 

3.

The ET^2 Ethernet cable emerged from this and a full year later I finally connected one between the Audio PC and the Music Server PC. Remember, that connection actually doing nothing - described under #1.

It so so much improved the sound ! ... I can't reason how this works, but it does.

It must have been a year ago that I put in that ET^3. But not long after - thus a year ago - people started to ask for an extra shield and the ET^3 was born. People buy it and buy it. I am still on the ET^2. As usual I am behind. Even while I know it will work for the better ...

 

End-of-not-advertisement (ahum).

 

Please keep in mind that when the Ethernet cable will be used for streaming, like in your situation, the differences will only be larger. Say as large as a Lush^2 or Lush^3 will imply (very huge differences per config). With my ET^2 in that belittled situation, it became immediately apparent that the sound became much more smooth because of it. Think more silk. This is not how a "direct" protocol cable like USB will exhibit it. That changes stages and depth and holographic's and other natures. I don't see this happening with my #1 described connection. But with yours it well could be. You'd need to try it. And send back if it doesn't work out ...

 

Peter

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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38 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

I'm getting electrical interference from the ethernet cable connected to my Node2i streamer. Every time I turn on any lights or the motor of the fridge turns on, the Node2i makes a click and cuts the sound while connected to the ethernet cable,

 

Although it may change things, your problem most probably will be a missing ground somewhere. For example, the ground in a balanced (XLR) cable (loose/broken wire).

 

Groeten uit Grollo Epe.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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3 hours ago, intothedragon said:

I'm pretty sure the electrical noise is coming from the shielded CAT7 FTP cables. 

 

I know that intuitively is prone to be the case, but there is no reason to, electrically. Anyway, can't you easily test it with an "unshielded" cable (plastic connectors) ? Also, is it actually so that both ends (both devices) have metal housings for the chassis parts (where the connector goes in) ?

 

Did you try to put either or both devices into mains earth ? (or just play with it into the other way around as that you currently have it)

 

Do you have another (lousy) coax cable laying around, just to try ?

 

 

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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39 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

I'm not finding a way to ground the Node2i but the power cable provided was that flat double insulated, maybe if I change for the EU standard round one I'll get a better grounding? 

 

No, that is not related. But the fact that the device does not provide earth (using the clips in the wall socket) encourages for problems (OK, not problems, but you'd have less solution possibilities). Also see upcoming post.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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39 minutes ago, intothedragon said:
5 hours ago, Miska said:

But it is important not to establish a ground path also from it's input side, even if it gets one from the output

how I would do that, please?

 

What Miska tells is that a "floating" PSU is a PSU which formally does not require any outside ground. It creates its own ground (think of a middle between plus and minus voltage - the middle is a "ground reference"). Now:

 

The ground reference will be a first "opportunity" for ground to not match the ground (reference) of a connected next or previous device in the chain. Thus, if one device references to mains earth and the other creates its own ground, then both almost certainly will not be equal and a current will start to flow somewhere where it was not intended. This can be over your coax shield, for example, that molesting the signal of that connection.

 

The dumb thing is that these issues are solved with explicitly MAKING the extra ground connection (over Ethernet). Now I also have a nice reason to show our cable, regarding this:

 

image.png.3711c0582c62872bc1add65f24216b31.png   

(connectors are plastic !)

 

 

image.png.92fb5b418361e94aa91ad3dc982a0c86.png

 

So these extra wires (with the eye) are to provide that ground you initially wanted out. Just in case because it is up to you whether to connect them (at each side).

 

This may also give you the feel of how to provide an extra ground connection, whether from the device to the next device or to the previous device, just provide that extra "wire". Some devices have provisions for this (so the eye you see can connect to the designed position), for some you can use a screw in the chassis (see the crocodile wires). But some devices have connected nothing to the chassis, and then nothing will work really and it will be signal ground providing the chassis-chassis connection (never good).

 

It depends on so many things. And it can well be that you have a device in the chain that just won't "cooperate" regarding this all.

 

For now I stay put on the idea that somewhere is ground is missing. And IIRC I ran into situations that this is not even in your audio chain. so think of a missing wire in your low voltage led. You connect the hot wire with the switch but the ground return is missing. But your power amplifier (or anything) can provide it.

a. CLICK !

b. Poor sound.

 

It will be a matter of reducing and deducing. You already did that. Try to think of some more steps. Maybe you can plug in headphones and eliminate a lot (preamp, poweramp (, speakers)).

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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24 minutes ago, plissken said:

6. Empiric evidence on everthing from $30K audio analyzers to $100K Agilent scopes show us that cables that meet spec simply meet spec and do nothing magical for us.

 

25 minutes ago, plissken said:

Here we go again.

 

Yes, it is almost USB. Nothing makes a difference whatsoever.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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1 hour ago, intothedragon said:

What is curious is with RCA cables that are metal terminations too the issue goes away

 

Think this over:

 

Your RCA interlink may comprise of two wires, A signal wire and a ground wire. This is fairly normal for such a signal wire.

What;' also fairly normal is that the two wires are surrounded by a shield. This shield will be conductive, Now:

 

When you use metal RCA plugs, this undoubtedly will mean that the metal connectors will be inter-connected by the shield. Next, the  chassis connectors (inlets) at both ends (devices) may have connected the outer part of the connector to the chassis. Well, I can't envision it, but if you talk about metal connectors it will be about the outside, so they should touch the chassis(es). Anyway, in that particular case the shield of the cable will provide ground. And if that indeed is so, then it will mean that at the inside of the device (probably not both) a connection is loose.

You could test this by means of an additional wire from chassis to chassis (find conducting parts in the faulty situation. Does it help ? then I am correct (but more than one RCA cables must give the problem).

 

I don't see the relevance really with the metal connector, but alas. It's worth a try.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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4 minutes ago, intothedragon said:

Do you think using a Coaxial Ground Loop Isolator would solve my issue? 

 

Those make it theoretically worse, when I am right in the first place. Or, it is unpredictable in that case (the still lacking ground will find an other path).

 

But foremost: No, these devices are highly unlinear.  Read: They imply a  bad sound (depends on what you are used tom but hey ...).

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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24 minutes ago, plissken said:

Optical is great, if,

 

26 minutes ago, plissken said:

over 150 yards I'm getting 80MB/s. All for $200

 

Great speed / cost ratio !

Everybody should do this.

Lush^3-e      Lush^2      Blaxius^2.5      Ethernet^3     HDMI^2     XLR^2

XXHighEnd (developer)

Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer)

Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer)

Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier)

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