Grateful Dead - the Most Overrated Band Ever?

[sphinxsix]

Maybe the question I asked (frankly this wasn't a question but let's say a suggestion) on the 'Eric Clapton' thread actually deserves a separate thread. I expect the discussion may be quite hot.

 

Repeating the essence of my post:

 

When I was a kid and I had only possibility of reading about Grateful Dead (they didn't play their music on the radio where I lived, in general the band has always been much more popular in the US) - I imagined, this must have been the greatest band of all time. Getting their first LP 'Terrapin Station' was the biggest disappointment in music in my life. The music was just bad and utterly boring. I still tend to think that Grateful Dead was actually a bad, boring and probably most overrated band ever. Many claim they were best while playing live (allmusic on 'Terrapin Station': "The theory is that the band's momentum is best experienced during the ebb and flow of a live performance rather than the somewhat clinical tedium of a recording studio.") but maybe their audience was simply usually too high to notice that apart from their ability to create a specific kind of connection with their audience they were in fact a bad, boring half amateur band..

 

I guess some are gonna hate me for this 

 

Let's stay relaxed..

 

 

[Samuel T Cogley]

The Grateful Dead played at Woodstock, which automatically lifts their mythology to something larger than life.

 

The people that followed them around in the 80s had some of the best LSD available in the U.S. (I'm told 🙂 )

 

Pretty much all their songs sounded alike.  Oh, and they had an MTV hit.

 

That's The Dead for me.

[firedog]

Overrated: yes. Most overrated of all time? Clearly not.

 

The Dead were good and original in their style and milieu.

Their big claim to fame were the live improvs-jams. What is true is that they managed with their live shows to truly communicate with their audience and as a result had  a dedicated audience who not only loved their shows, but also loved listening to tapes of the shows (and the Dead were about the only band that encouraged taping of their shows. Smart move). Having that kind of long running relationship with your audience - especially not a small audience - counts for a lot.

 

As a big Jazz fan, I find the Dead's improv-jamming a bit second rate. Not terrible by any means, but not up to the standard of a first rate jazz band. So in that sense, yes, overrated.

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

The people that followed them around in the 80s had some of the best LSD available in the U.S. (I'm told 🙂 )

 

Think I can understand deadheads in this regard 

 

2 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Oh, and they had an MTV hit.

 

Which was their hit?

 

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Most overrated of all time? Clearly not.

 

Who was more overrated than them then in your opinion, if I may ask?

 

2 hours ago, firedog said:

Having that kind of long running relationship with your audience - especially not a small audience - counts for a lot.

 

There are more bands like this, even in my home country, as it happens I don't like any of them, for me it's a kind of 'fireside' aspect @Jud was talking about:

 

45 minutes ago, Jud said:

If you approach them as friends around the fireside playing for fun on a cold and lonely evening, I think it helps get into the proper frame of mind.

 

2 hours ago, firedog said:

As a big Jazz fan, I find the Dead's improv-jamming a bit second rate.

 

Same here, for me it's a kind of improvisation which when I hear it I think 'I could play that!' and believe me - it's not a good thing! 

 

[Samuel T Cogley]

15 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

Which was their hit?

 

 

[sphinxsix]

21 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

 

 

Seems I was right - I could play this but I'd assume the average age of a listener would be 6, maybe 7..

(anyway IMO advertising joints to 6-7 yo kids isn't a good idea )

 

[Samuel T Cogley]

4 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

 

Seems I was right - I could play this but I'd assume the average age of a listener would be 6, maybe 7..

(anyway IMO advertising joints to 6-7 yo kids isn't a good idea )

 

 

The MTV era was a double edged sword to the record labels.  This video is nothing more than an attempt to cash in on the Dead with the teens and 20 somethings.  Some existing artists (like Michael Jackson) thrived in the MTV-all-that-matters-is-how-you-look culture, others struggled (unnecessarily IMHO) to even remain relevant. 

 

[jp11801]

over rated absolutely not, acquired taste yes. I was never a friend but my best friend is a dead head. I committed to listen to the dead for a few weeks and after a few weeks of recommended concertsI was addicted. Not a quick listen to fall in love but give it a chance and there is something special there 

[charlesphoto]

Never 'got' them when I was sober, and if I was on drugs (speaking hypothetically and past tense) they would be the LAST band I would want to hear. Fascinating history though, some good, some really dark. 

[NOMBEDES]

I never got the Dead.  But, then, there are a lot of bands I love that other folks never cared for.  So I don't see a point to the OP's Post.

 

I mean you could make any "I don't think X (Clapton) is that great.......or the Y (Dead) is overrated" statement and get clicks.

 

Here, let me help you:

 

Luxman amps sound too warm.

The Stones are a cover band

Vinyl sucks

Expensive cables are snake oil

Digital sucks

 

 

 

 

[christopher3393]

5 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Maybe the question I asked (frankly this wasn't a question but let's say a suggestion) on the 'Eric Clapton' thread actually deserves a separate thread. I expect the discussion may be quite hot.

 

Repeating the essence of my post:

 

When I was a kid and I had only possibility of reading about Grateful Dead (they didn't play their music on the radio where I lived, in general the band has always been much more popular in the US) - I imagined, this must have been the greatest band of all time. Getting their first LP 'Terrapin Station' was the biggest disappointment in music in my life. The music was just bad and utterly boring. I still tend to think that Grateful Dead was actually a bad, boring and probably most overrated band ever. Many claim they were best while playing live (allmusic on 'Terrapin Station': "The theory is that the band's momentum is best experienced during the ebb and flow of a live performance rather than the somewhat clinical tedium of a recording studio.") but maybe their audience was simply usually too high to notice that apart from their ability to create a specific kind of connection with their audience they were in fact a bad, boring half amateur band..

 

I guess some are gonna hate me for this 

 

Let's stay relaxed..

 

 

 

dude............you are undead to me.

 

May I humbly recommend a wee documentary?

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Strange_Trip

 

Personally, I, like many others who were not true deadheads, gave more listening time to Workingman's Dead and American Beauty (which were basically one long project) than to anything else. I have at times lucked on to listening to really great long improv jams that just worked, and to live concerts where the harmonies were at least tolerable. Side projects anyone? Listened to Old and In The Way many times, and some New Riders of the Purple Sage (Jerry helped them get going and played pedal steel early on).

[sphinxsix]

47 minutes ago, christopher3393 said:

May I humbly recommend a wee documentary?

 

A risky thing - after seeing 'Billie Eilish - the World is a Little Blurry' doc couple of days ago I had come to the conclusion (not my music, I hate such sound, anyway read on..) that she's more talented than Clapton and the Dead taken together - I really don't think I am ready to change my mind 

(but I'll give again after many years at least a quick listen to both albums mentioned by you and Jud which are widely regarded as the deadest Dead..).

 

Undeadly

Sphinxsix 

 

[R1200CL]

One of few recordings that sounds better on MQA. 

[sphinxsix]

 

1 hour ago, NOMBEDES said:

I never got the Dead.

 

 

I not only don't get the Dead but I also don't get how can anyone get them..

Trying to understand and for now the 'fireside theory' seems to me the most convincing one to me 

 

1 hour ago, NOMBEDES said:

So I don't see a point to the OP's Post.

 

1 hour ago, NOMBEDES said:

I mean you could make any "I don't think X (Clapton) is that great.......or the Y (Dead) is overrated" statement and get clicks.

 

The solution to your problem is pretty simple, my friend, just don't click on this thread 

 

[sphinxsix]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

One of few recordings that sounds better on MQA. 

 

If you're suggesting that their music was the music of the future (or of the future formats) - I'm not buying that 

 

[Mayfair]

I don't think of the Grateful Dead's music as really fitting into a rock, blues, country, psychedelic or jazz genre. I think it's their version of Americana.  Like the best of The Band, or Dylan, the best of their songs could have been written 250 years ago, they could have been written 25 years ago, but they could only have been written in America. FWIW, I think any songwriter in any genre in any time would have sold his soul to have written the lyrics to "Ripple".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_(song)

 

At their best live (and they are at their best live), I think the Grateful Dead created "flow" in and with their audience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mihaly_Csikszentmihalyi#Flow

 

It's all a matter of taste, but I think with the Grateful Dead, you're either on the bus, or you're not.  If you are on the bus, you know why.  

[sphinxsix]

I've just checked out for the first time in years 'Ripple' and a handful of other songs from 'American Beauty'. The first reflection - I'm not a fan of country music at all, one of the things that turns me off in GD are its elements in what they did. For me it's - either we are rockers or cowboys. 

 

That is unless of course we are Leningrad Cowboys..

 

 

I also find the idea of 'acid cowboys' slightly weird..

[Rexp]

Don't know them well but like this track:

 

[Priaptor]

I was never a huge Dead fan and in fact, stupidly, when I was a kid of 16-18 in 69-71 you had to swear your allegiance to either the Dead or The Allman Brothers. I was an AB junkie what can I say. 

 

I never really sit down to listen to the Dead anymore, but do find some of their music fun while driving around the mountains in MT. Now I will say this about the Dead and for those of you who aren't old enough to understand what it was like when you were at a party or concert with air filled with Dead tunes (among other things), it was much more than just the music. It literally was what we referred to as A SCENE and few bands elicited that to their audiences and listeners the way the Dead did. 

[Daccord]

2 hours ago, Mayfair said:

Like the best of The Band, or Dylan, the best of their songs could have been written 250 years ago, they could have been written 25 years ago, but they could only have been written in America.

 

 

 The Band was formed in Toronto in 1967, Originally four Canadians and one American.

[Mayfair]

29 minutes ago, Daccord said:

 

 The Band was formed in Toronto in 1967, Originally four Canadians and one American.

Sure, but I didn't say that the songs could have only been written by Americans.  I said that the songs could only have been written in America, e.g.,

 

Music from Big Pink - Wikipedia

The Band (album) - Wikipedia

 

 

[firedog]

11 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Who was more overrated than them then in your opinion, if I may ask?

A couple off the top of my head from the same era: The Moody Blues, Love. Love put out a few OK albums, IMO, and gets put on the lists of best albums of all time. There are lots of others.

[firedog]

11 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

There are more bands like this, even in my home country

Yes, but the Dead have a worldwide audience like that - and a very big one. Also multi-generational. How many bands do you know like that? There aren't a lot.

[ssh]

A recording of the Dead's Cornell show, 5-8-77 is in the Library of Congress. The 24/192 recording is wonderful.

[sphinxsix]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

18 hours ago, sphinxsix said:

Who was more overrated than them then in your opinion, if I may ask?

A couple off the top of my head from the same era: The Moody Blues, Love.

 

None of them IMO had a cult following similar to GD. That was exactly the reason why I chose GD as IMO most overrated one, of course beside my attitude to their music which in its essence I had described above.