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Strangest HiFi Issue I've Ever Seen


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12 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

If I slowly flip the switch to the off position, Audi in my system will completely stop, requiring a reboot of one specific component.

 

What type of component is that ? (DAC, Streamer, Switch, etc.)

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I have one I find stranger still: at my office, several monitors connected with a Dell usb display hub loose sync as soon as someone sitting on a height adjustable office chair in front of the monitor stands up from the chair. At first, they were looking for cables under the carpet, but there are none!

 

Gas-lift office chairs can create EMI when you stand up from them.

 

Check your DAC-behaviour next time you are jumping up and down on your office chair.

 

https://support.displaylink.com/knowledgebase/articles/738618-display-intermittently-blanking-flickering-or-los

 

Especially the linked whitepaper!

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13 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

When the fan is winding down, it will act as a generator ...

Until the voltage collapses in the stator due to losses, about 50ms best for a bathroom fan? 
More the spike due to inductive coils responding to loss of voltage, for a chip to not like that these days is pretty bad. 🥱

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Are you using fiber on this network? What are all the copper lines that go into your audio area? How close is the bathroom to the audio area? Sounds like a burst of rf / common mode noise

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3 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Are you using fiber on this network? What are all the copper lines that go into your audio area? How close is the bathroom to the audio area? Sounds like a burst of rf / common mode noise

I have fiber and copper in this network. Bathroom is roughly 6 feet from components. 

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7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I have fiber and copper in this network. Bathroom is roughly 6 feet from components. 

I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing the answers to my basic questions.  Did this suddenly start after a long period of normal function?  When it first started, had you made any changes anywhere in the house - added any appliances, switched from incandescent to a WiFi dimmed LED bulb, moved a piece of furniture, tripped a beaker in any circuit, etc etc etc?  Is the fan switch a simple mechanical SPST, a mercury switch, an electronic control, or something else?  Is the fan a simple AC motor or is it part of a multifunction bathroom device (e.g. heat, light, vent)?

 

Is the bathroom part of contruction that you oversaw, so you're sure it's correctly done and on a proper branch from your main house power?  Is your home's grounding bar and wiring still intact?  Does the sonic malfunction occur if you plug the unnamed component into an extension cord from an outlet on your main circuit instead of its dedicated outlet?  Does switching off the breaker to the bathroom fan's circuit eliminate the problem or does throwing the fan switch still affect your sound even though the fan won't go on?

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4 minutes ago, bluesman said:

I may have missed it, but I don't recall seeing the answers to my basic questions.  Did this suddenly start after a long period of normal function?  When it first started, had you made any changes anywhere in the house - added any appliances, switched from incandescent to a WiFi dimmed LED bulb, moved a piece of furniture, tripped a beaker in any circuit, etc etc etc?  Is the fan switch a simple mechanical SPST, a mercury switch, an electronic control, or something else?  Is the fan a simple AC motor or is it part of a multifunction bathroom device (e.g. heat, light, vent)?

 

Is the bathroom part of contruction that you oversaw, so you're sure it's correctly done and on a proper branch from your main house power?  Is your home's grounding bar and wiring still intact?  Does the sonic malfunction occur if you plug the unnamed component into an extension cord from an outlet on your main circuit instead of its dedicated outlet?  Does switching off the breaker to the bathroom fan's circuit eliminate the problem or does throwing the fan switch still affect your sound even though the fan won't go on?


No changed that I know of. 
 

Discovering the issue was accidental, so it could’ve been here forever. 
 

The fan has been here since we moved into the house in 2008. It’s a very simple model. 
 

The switch panel has two light switches that run left & right and the fan switch that runs up & down. 
 

the switch is very basic. On/off. No heat or multifunction. 
 

Wiring could be messed up. 
 

House ground is intact. 
 

I tried an extension cord to an outlet that runs down to the main house panel, bypassing my audio sub-panel and transformers, but no luck. Same issue. 
 

I’ll test what happens with no power to the fan and switch. 

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On 3/13/2021 at 2:18 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Issue: When I turn off the fan, audio in my system pauses for a brief second. If I slowly flip the switch to the off position, Audi in my system will completely stop, requiring a reboot of one specific component.

 

 

 

This to me suggests very strongly that it's RF noise doing the damage - that the sparking within the switch during slow turn off is generating just the right sort of interference signal to impact the component. What I would do - which is something I did once to develop a mains filter - is plug something that had a straightforward electrical load; an incandescent bulb of decent wattage, say, into an extension cord that plugged into a socket that was part of the audio spur - and make the connection of the load to the extension cord arc, by half pulling it out; and jiggling it - the light flickering is an easy indicator of having the right connection instability ... and seeing what happens. If the audio is completely not affected by this, then it's telling you that something more complex is happening.

Frank

 

http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/

 

 

Over and out.

.

 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I have fiber and copper in this network. Bathroom is roughly 6 feet from components. 

Is it possible to remove copper Input into audio area?

 

That would test whether common mode spike is coming through Ethernet.

 

I am assuming that isolation transformers are isolating AC input.

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3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:


No changed that I know of. 
 

Discovering the issue was accidental, so it could’ve been here forever. 
 

The fan has been here since we moved into the house in 2008. It’s a very simple model. 
 

The switch panel has two light switches that run left & right and the fan switch that runs up & down. 
 

the switch is very basic. On/off. No heat or multifunction. 
 

Wiring could be messed up. 
 

House ground is intact. 
 

I tried an extension cord to an outlet that runs down to the main house panel, bypassing my audio sub-panel and transformers, but no luck. Same issue. 
 

I’ll test what happens with no power to the fan and switch. 

Gotta watch out for previous harry homeowner specials. I have no idea why someone decided to run a wire between two fixtures on separate breakers in one of

my old houses but it made for some head scratching  when turning off the breaker didn't de-energize a light. Fortunately I could get up in the attic to

see a wire run that wasn't original.

 

Unlike a light switch, fan motors are an inductive device, will "push back" on the circuit when you try to energize/de-energize them.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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22 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 

Gotta watch out for previous harry homeowner specials. I have no idea why someone decided to run a wire between two fixtures on separate breakers in one of

my old houses but it made for some head scratching  when turning off the breaker didn't de-energize a light. Fortunately I could get up in the attic to

see a wire run that wasn't original.

 

Unlike a light switch, fan motors are an inductive device, will "push back" on the circuit when you try to energize/de-energize them.

Agree. The previous owner had a “special” way of doing things. 

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I had a similar issue with my Shiit EITR USB to S/PDIF converter. When I switched the mains light on, the USB connection was lost and I had to reset the unit to reconnect. Other members had the same issue. I replaced the light switch but the problem persisted. According to Mike Moffat from Shiit it had to be a problem with the mains wiring, but personally I think the USB chip used in the EITR is overly sensitive to the RF burst resulting from switching the light. I had the same problem with a SHIIT Modi 2 DAC which uses the same USB chip. I now use another DDC (and another DAC) without a problem.

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2 hours ago, Abtr said:

I had a similar issue with my Shiit EITR USB to S/PDIF converter. When I switched the mains light on, the USB connection was lost and I had to reset the unit to reconnect. Other members had the same issue. I replaced the light switch but the problem persisted. According to Mike Moffat from Shiit it had to be a problem with the mains wiring, but personally I think the USB chip used in the EITR is overly sensitive to the RF burst resulting from switching the light. I had the same problem with a SHIIT Modi 2 DAC which uses the same USB chip. I now use another DDC (and another DAC) without a problem.

Do you know which chip is used in the problematic devices?

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33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Do you know which chip is used in the problematic devices?

 

CM6631A is the USB interface device used in the EITR.

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I don't think you should have he fan (bathroom) connected to the audio circuit at all.  

My reasoning, fans are bad. (noise, a host of other issues) No matter where they are in the chain.

 

You would not want a fan in your audio computer, right?

 

 

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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2 minutes ago, NOMBEDES said:

I don't think you should have he fan (bathroom) connected to the audio circuit at all.  

My reasoning, fans are bad. (noise, a host of other issues) No matter where they are in the chain.

 

You would not want a fan in your audio computer, right?

 

 

The fan is connected to the main circuit panel in the basement. My audio system has its own sub-panel and power transformers. 

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1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The fan is connected to the main circuit panel in the basement. My audio system has its own sub-panel and power transformers. 

 

Got it.  I have no idea how the fan can screw up your quasi isolated stereo.   Something somewhere is not hooked up correctly.

Good luck.

In any dispute the intensity of feeling is inversely proportional to the value of the issues at stake ~ Sayre's Law

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21 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Yes, I certainly can do this easily. 

If that doesn't solve the problem, and assuming that your isolation transformers are working, then something else in your system is acting like an antenna for an RF pulse, possibly the device itself. Eliminating the copper Ethernet eliminates that cable as the possible antenna. Any of the cables going into or out of the component that needs rebooting might be the culprit or the housing of the component, or the board of the component itself.

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