Article: The Sonos Port Isn't Bit Perfect

[The Computer Audiophile]

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[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, NapaBob said:

Thanks for doing this! I have somewhere around 10 Sonos zones in my home. 5 of them have external DACs and of those, 3 are in serious listening systems. To be fair, a lot of my serious listening is vinyl or CD, but I also do a lot of Tidal listening. Of the 3 important Sonos boxes, 1 is a Connect modified by Wyred 4 Sound, 1 a Port modified by W4S, and 1 a regular Port. All 3 use Audio Note (UK) DACs.

 

Moving away from Sonos takes away all the nice options of multi-room play - or at least having to replace ALL the Sonos boxes. I also have a Roon system, but it will not let you group a Sonos device with a non-Sonos one (I suspect because it is using the rich Sonos control protocol).

 

So although bobflood's prediction is probably right, I would certainly love to see the switch to turn off any DSP.

 

Thanks for all the info NapaBob. There are quite a few people in the same boat as you, using Sonos in pretty revealing systems. The content Sonos delivers is second to none. The user interface and ease of use is pretty good as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just found this thread in the Sonos forum that concludes the exact opposite of the truth. Actual testing really helps :~)

 

https://en.community.sonos.com/components-228996/port-bit-perfect-6836260

[The Computer Audiophile]

52 minutes ago, DK11706 said:

HDCD has to be supported by the DAC, maybe the port doesn't support the extended low level flags and ignores them. Port has to be bitperfect I just bought one because I read that they had fixed the bitperfect issue 😁

There’s no such thing as extended low level flags. 
 

I hope they fix the issue. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, DK11706 said:

Well HDCD have a control signal, and only works if supported by the player, so my point is still valid :-)

No. 

 

HDCDs played bit perfectly by any digital output into an HDCD DAC, will light up the HDCD indicator. It's the same for DTS signals. If the component can pass bit perfect signals, the DTS component will see it and indicate it's DTS.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, DK11706 said:

Have you reported this to Sonos?

Yes. So far the company isn't interested. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, DK11706 said:

I did a quick catch up on HDCD and I have to admit that you are right and I'm wrong, the HDCD data is hidden in the last of part of the 16Bit, so if Sonos was bitperfect it should be passed and detected by your DAC.

 

Anyway thank you for a great find, I already requested a return for my product and replaced it with my old trusty ZP80. 

Thanks for the follow up @DK11706. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Tamarin said:

Old news. Even the Connect is no longer bit perfect as of units manufactured in 2011 on, with hardware version 1.16.5 or higher (assuming that you keep it updated firmware-wise)

https://en.community.sonos.com/components-228996/connect-no-longer-bit-perfect-6738927

I got rid of all my Sonos gear because of this.

 

I can confirm that my Connect manufactured in April 2013, and hardware version 1.16.5.5-1.0 is 100% bit perfect. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, DK11706 said:

Hi,

 

I did some testing today, and I can confirm that both my Port and ZP80 are not bitperfect. My new DAC arrived today and works great with all material using my laptop.

 

When I connect Sonos to my DAC it locks to 44.1 Khz and stays there even when feed 48Khz material, so I guess sonos downsamples everything to 16Bit /44Khz.

 

One odd thing I did notice and maybe can be part of the bit perfect problem, is that you are still able to control max volume even with fixed output enabled.

 

Cheers..

I believe both products max out at 44.1 don’t they?

[The Computer Audiophile]

13 minutes ago, DK11706 said:

I contacted Sonos support and they told me Coax supported bit depth is 16-bit/24-bit (44.1kHz/48kHz, FLAC/ALAC). 

Oh very interesting. I will test those sample rates as well. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

17 minutes ago, scobihughes said:

does anyone know if the sonos amp is bit perfect?

Impossible to test because it only has analog output. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Musiq said:

I’ve juste finished to make a few tests as I have both connect and port on board still for a few weeks until the connect will extinguish itself :) 

 

speaking about processing, there is no doubt that Sonos pass signal through its DSP in variable and fixed mode. By the way, even with the analog output you can hear it on high resolving systems. BUT, when you set the output to Pass Through… then you recover the Fixed output from the old Connect, even better. The DAC is I think better and you can hear it with a good preamp/integrated amplifier and interconnects. Details and sound stages even if they are not as good as high end dac are convincing from my point of view regarding a wam sound signature at the opposite from SABRE Delta-Sigma constructions. Connect was not analytical as well, Port is in the same sound signature, but with better silence and less boomy low end.

 

I did not test the digital output yet, but as it is stated it will not process anything greater than 24/48. This is Sonos choice since years. 

 

despite that I like the client, the interface, the easiness to send flow of audio to multiple place in the house. the airplay 2 coupling works perfectly and without any delay from any source (iphone, ipad).

 

upnp works also smoothly, integrating sonos into an openhome network with bubbleupnp or with room. Sonos can stream external flow, but with a slightly different sound signature depending on the sources I have tested (minim, room, qnap upnp). the internal streaming mechanism seems to be sensitive to this kind of jitter.

 

This was my 5 cent on this topic, but, please make your tests in pass through mode (see S2 settings) to avoid going through the DSP and try to reverse powerplug because there is a HUGE difference there too (set phase on the upper pin, not the one close to the cable)

 

I tried every mode available. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, MgP2804 said:

Did ask in Sonos forum and had a chat with Sonos support on that. Pls. take a look here: https://en.community.sonos.com/setting-up-sonos-228990/sonos-port-connect-gen-2-spdif-max-samplerate-and-bitrate-6865790?postid=16582736#post16582736

I don’t believe that’s correct. I did the objective tests. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, MgP2804 said:

Another thread at Sonos community, from just one month ago 🤭https://en.community.sonos.com/setting-up-sonos-228990/sonos-connect-port-and-digital-output-6864737

I’ve done the tests. No matter who comments on the Sonos forum about how things should work, I have objective proof they don’t work that way. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, MgP2804 said:

That other thread from just a month ago  confirms your measurements.

Ah. I read it quickly and though it was another, “here’s how it works because it just does,,,” type of comment. 
 

Thanks for the follow up. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

51 minutes ago, kayoti said:

Hey, I'm having difficulty understanding some of this information.  Hopefully someone can help clarify, I'm connecting my turnable to an existing Sonos system.  Here is how it's set up:

 

Turntable > phono preamp > Five (line in),  playing on Five and grouped with other Sonos speakers in other rooms.

 

Turntable > phono preamp > Port, playing on Sonos speakers in other rooms.

 

-Will both of these setups yield the exact same result in audio?

-Will the DAC of the Port be used, even if I'm not using an analog out?

 

Thank you!

 

The DAC in the Port is bypassed, but you are using the ADC in the port to convert analog to digital, before it’s sent to the Sonos speakers. 
 

For the most part, the sound will be the same in both configurations. There is a double conversion happening, from Analog (turntable) to digital (in the Sonos for sending/receiving and digital signal processing / volume control) and back to analog (output from the speaker).

[The Computer Audiophile]

35 minutes ago, Parsnip said:

Hi - I just came across this discussion. 

 

In the tests, you "setup both the Connect and the Port identically. Both units were set "Fixed" Line-Out Level."

 

On my Port, I also have a setting called "Pass-Through" which is in addition to the Variable and Fixed settings. Have you tested the Pass-Through setting to see if it makes a difference?

 

Thanks

Yeah, I tested that without a difference.