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Unpopular opinion... I don't think Eric Clapton is very great.


AudioDoctor
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3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

@audiobomber

@Allan F

@RHSims

 

Why don't you post your least favorite flavor of ice cream and we'll all take a go at convincing you to change your mind about it?

 

Be sure to provide a detailed explanation as to why you don't like it and proof that you've tried it on numerous occasions.

 

Why don't you post something of substance instead of this irrelevant drivel? 😊

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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1 minute ago, Allan F said:

 

Why don't you post something of substance instead of this irrelevant drivel? 😊

 

Seems just as relevant as you hounding @AudioDoctor to justify his preference not to listen to Mr. Clapton.

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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7 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Seems just as relevant as you hounding @AudioDoctor to justify his preference not to listen to Mr. Clapton.

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But the weight to be afforded any opinion is only as great as the information upon which it is based. I don't have any problem with what @AudioDoctor prefers to listen to. My problem arises when and how he tries to justify that what he doesn't like is not worth listening to.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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8 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Why don't you post something of substance instead of this irrelevant drivel? 😊

 

I find John Coltrane way, way overrated.

 

Quote

Miles Davis, a man of few words and strong views, once asked John Coltrane why he played such long solos. When the saxophonist said he just did not know how to stop, Davis replied: “Try taking the horn out of your mouth”

 

Sometimes it's like someone took a knife, baby
Edgy and dull and cut a six inch valley
Through the middle of my skull

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5 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

Miles Davis, a man of few words and strong views, once asked John Coltrane why he played such long solos. When the saxophonist said he just did not know how to stop, Davis replied: “Try taking the horn out of your mouth”

 

An insightful reply with substance. 😊

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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13 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

An insightful reply with substance. 😊

 

And wrong.  Though of course it is fine if he feels that way.  :)

 

Bill

Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant

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6 minutes ago, Bill Brown said:

 

And wrong.  Though of course it is fine if he feels that way.  :)

 

Bill

 

Technically, it's not "wrong", as Davis simply provided advice to address the reason that Coltrane offered. 😊

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Clapton is not great, PERIOD. Perhaps to some, but not to all. What I don't think we can do, in this day and age, as I've pointed out before, is at a certain point separate the man/woman's art from their personal beliefs. I think if it wasn't for that piece of irresponsible excrement him and Morrison released in December, many of us might be ok, be whatever, let him and his fans be okay with what he is despite personally finding him boring, over rated etc.

 

But this time there's no excuses - no drugs and drinking to fall back on (and I doubt he truly ever had a personal reckoning with his racist attitude, but rather learned to keep his mouth shut). My favorite ice cream mfg (I'm dairy free so it's Coconut Bliss for me) has never called for it's customers to join what is essentially a death cult during a pandemic. I know, I know, politics rearing its ugly head again, but some things just can't be separated imo, and that goes for any artist that refuses to at least confront their demons and be open about it. We all have them, it's how we deal with them responsibly that is the differentiator. Marilyn and Michael anyone? 

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1 hour ago, kumakuma said:

I find John Coltrane way, way overrated.

 

50 minutes ago, Allan F said:

Technically, it's not "wrong", as Davis simply provided advice to address the reason that Coltrane offered. 😊

 

I was responding to the first.  The second is definitely a true story! :)

 

Bill

Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant

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5 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Clapton is not great, PERIOD. Perhaps to some, but not to all. What I don't think we can do, in this day and age, as I've pointed out before, is at a certain point separate the man/woman's art from their personal beliefs. I think if it wasn't for that piece of irresponsible excrement him and Morrison released in December, many of us might be ok, be whatever, let him and his fans be okay with what he is despite personally finding him boring, over rated etc.

 

But this time there's no excuses - no drugs and drinking to fall back on (and I doubt he truly ever had a personal reckoning with his racist attitude, but rather learned to keep his mouth shut). My favorite ice cream mfg (I'm dairy free so it's Coconut Bliss for me) has never called for it's customers to join what is essentially a death cult during a pandemic. I know, I know, politics rearing its ugly head again, but some things just can't be separated imo, and that goes for any artist that refuses to at least confront their demons and be open about it. We all have them, it's how we deal with them responsibly that is the differentiator. Marilyn and Michael anyone? 

There YOU go again. There is opinion and then there is reality, the latter you choose to ignore. By EVERY single objective metric Clapton is one of the greatest. Only here on group think audiophile style where only one way of thinking is allowed is Clapton desecrated to the bowels of guitarists. LMAO. 

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On 3/3/2021 at 6:22 PM, AudioDoctor said:

In fact, I find him boring, I don't hear anything special in his guitar playing, I have no idea why he is so famous, and his music is easy listening for aging boomers...

 

He took a superior art form, polished all its rough edges, packaged it for middle america, and IMO, ruined every blues song he ever sang.

I don’t really disagree...

 

But speaking as a songwriter, - there’s a big difference between writing music and cramming notes into a measure. He has written some powerful, and beautiful melodies. Also, he is not a singer, - so not sure where that comes from. I also regard Joe Satriani as a “not-very-good” guitar player, - whereas Frank Zappa is a great guitar player. For me, (Clapton) he’s just another part of a late 60s songwriting “team” that lost their muse. (I exclude Ginger Baker from that statement). 

 

But then, (as a matter of opinion), i don’t expect anyone to agree with me, - speed is always going to take a backseat to songwriting: a great guitar player, like a great horn player, has the confidence to hold just one note, or not play at all, when it’s needed/required.

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4 minutes ago, Priaptor said:

There YOU go again. There is opinion and then there is reality, the latter you choose to ignore. By EVERY single objective metric Clapton is one of the greatest. Only here on group think audiophile style where only one way of thinking is allowed is Clapton desecrated to the bowels of guitarists. LMAO. 

Ok, I guess we are free to try and gaslight each other, and its pretty obvious you'll always want/need the last word. But just because you say he is the greatest - PERIOD - doesn't make that a definitive statement by any means, and my saying he is a boring bigot doesn't make my statement any more definitive either. I could care less what most critics have to say.

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11 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

Perhaps, but he does raise a valid point in that, apart from "not hear[ing] anything special in his guitar playing", the OP offers nothing in terms of specific criticisms, e.g. what is lacking compared to other guitarists. Nor does he provide any examples of songs or performances in support of his opinion. Moreover. we have no idea of how much of EC's extensive catalogue of studio albums, live albums, soundtracks or compilations he is even familiar with.

 

I happen to be among those who consider Layla and Other Assorted Love Songs to be one of the truly great rock albums of the seventies, in not all time, with the title track an absolute "classic".

 

I gave you the only specifics you need for how I formed my opinion. He does nothing for me.

 

You're free to have your own opinion, that's fine.

No electron left behind...

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1 hour ago, Allan F said:

 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. But the weight to be afforded any opinion is only as great as the information upon which it is based. I don't have any problem with what @AudioDoctor prefers to listen to. My problem arises when and how he tries to justify that what he doesn't like is not worth listening to.

 

I don't need any justification beyond, I don't find him special. It's just my opinion. I am not trying to change your opinion, we're not arguing civil rights legislation and this discussion has absolutely no impact on anything, it's just a subjective discussion about the merits of EC's guitar playing.

No electron left behind...

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Just now, Allan F said:

 

I'll take one soulful bend over a shred of notes any and every day.

 

That's fine, I find other people more soulful, but that's just my opinion.

No electron left behind...

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24 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

...we're not arguing civil rights legislation and this discussion has absolutely no impact on anything, it's just a subjective discussion about the merits of EC's guitar playing.

 

You started and, intentionally or otherwise - I strongly suspect the former - provoked a discussion. Therefore, regardless of the topic being of far less than any great social significance, challenging your opinions is not only fair game, it should be expected.

 

22 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

That's fine, I find other people more soulful, but that's just my opinion.

 

My comment about "one soulful bend" was about guitar players, in general, not specifically about EC.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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18 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Ok, I guess we are free to try and gaslight each other, and its pretty obvious you'll always want/need the last word. But just because you say he is the greatest - PERIOD - doesn't make that a definitive statement by any means, and my saying he is a boring bigot doesn't make my statement any more definitive either. I could care less what most critics have to say.

There YOU go again. First did I say he "IS THE GREATEST" or "one of the greatest" by every objective metric. Very different.

 

Second your woke garbage doesn't make him any less great.

 

Lastly for someone accusing me of "want/need the last word" you sure couldn't help yourself from trying to get the last word. 

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1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

Clapton is not great, PERIOD...What I don't think we can do, in this day and age, as I've pointed out before, is at a certain point separate the man/woman's art from their personal beliefs.

 

Perhaps that is what you can't do and that is your problem. This thread is about EC's guitar playing. It is not a judgment of his character or whether he is a great person.

 

The intended message of Morrison and Clapton's song was concern for the death of live music and the hardships faced by performing musicians. Sadly, and inappropriately, the heavy handed manner in which they expressed it ignored - some would say even belittled - a worldwide human health crisis.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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Duplicate post.

"Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall

"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron

 

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3 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

 

I don't want to be argumentative, and it may be too far off topic, but I note that from a scientific perspective you are citing anecdotes and these can be strongly affected by mistaking/erroneously ascribing a relationship between cause and effect.

 

And I have seen many patients who have undergone ECT and think it was very valuable, so I don't think your last statement is accurate.  Not to mention young catatonic schizophrenics I have seen whose only activity was wiping their feces on the wall who "woke up" and did well, truly disease changing.

 

Bill

 

Like I said, those advocating the treatment have never received it...

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