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We need a new standard in transferring digital signals between audio equipment.


R1200CL

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On 2/27/2021 at 7:41 PM, R1200CL said:

AES/EBU SPDIF Toslink and USB. (I2S and probably more). I don’t include HMDI, but feel free to add that technology as well. 
 

Are these technologies outdated for modern digital audio ?

 

Shouldn't they at least be updated to be fiber optics ?

Wouldn’t we save us self al lot of issues regarding cables if all digital interfaces was via fiber optics ?

This includes clock signals. 

 

Which manufacturer is willing to start a new standard ? And why won’t they do ?

 

Can everything be converted to Ethernet ? Or at least use SFP as interface ?
 

I like to hear your thoughts about this, and hopefully some skilled members can participate. 
 

Do we need a new standard in transferring digital audio between our equipment ?


I prototyped a Zynq single chip interface which inputs SFP/SFP(+) and outputs I2S/DSD to a DAC ...

 

Basically runs a custom Linux kernel.

 

I have no interest in commercializing and supporting the software for what would cost a prohibitive amount of $$.

 

Thats to say it would be a lot of work for an unclear benefit. This is a hobby for me. I think a Power DAC which is what I suspect @Miska is working on is the way to go. This is essentially a software project.

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14 hours ago, R1200CL said:

So in general it’s possible to take any digital protocols over SFP ? Only sw makes this possible ?

Why didn’t you go USB ? 

The Zynq is a ARM/FPGA from Xilinx (which acquired Solarflare and is being acquired by AMD). An FPGA is essentially programmable hardware. The ARM chips run Linux and use device drivers to communicate with the FPGA (memory mapped). The *purpose* of doing this is to provide an Ethernet input module for a DAC which allows the DAC to send its clock into this module such that the IO uses the clock domain of the DAC.

 

The FPGA can be programmed to connect IO lines to an SFP module as well as USB. It can also be programmed to output I2S/DSD IO lines.

 

Typically you'd load an SGMII module and then IwIP on top of which you run TCP in a driver.

 

If you want to run a different protocol than Ethernet on an SFP, you can you just write a FPGA module for that protocol.

 

So if you developed a new Protocol converter using an ARM/FPGA  what makes this better? What are you trying to achieve?

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2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Just trying to understand what may or may not be possible.
 

Of cause it’s also meant as an inspiration to a certain companies we all know very well. Not that I don’t think they haven’t taught about it. 

So you could actually have one SFP/SFP+ interface serving all audio digital protocols by just changing SW 😀

 

The issue is that even if a small company developed this new way of communication, you would still need a converter to match up with old equipment. And the main question is of cause if it will result in better SQ. 
 

We will probably know more in 2 to 3 years. 
 

Your experiment seems very interesting. 

 

Yes I am aware and correct. For me it would be an interface box that then distributed a fiberoptic DSD signal to each of N PowerDAC/speaker modules.

 

I suspect @Miska's Pulse & Fidelity is looking at this space and while I think its super interesting and there is a lot to be done, I've been waylayed by a different robotics project that is well also interesting ... so my prototype remains that... I did learn how to program the Zynq which was really fun...

 

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1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

Does Thunderbolt use a USB like transport?  I don't know or not...  Ethernet is so compatible already...  Of course, with the fiber version of Thunderbolt, it would be more practical to wire your house.   Ethernet and ethernet/fiber can already do that.

 

Frankly, back before USB was introduced, the Intel people came over and were giving me advanced information on it -- I didn't like it at all.  However, as USB became more useful and advanced, it started to make sense.   I am a terrible predictor of the future.

 

Except, what I was doing conceptual work at AT&T Bell Labs ended up being our current cell network (video, transports et&al.)   I didn't think that it would be practical, but I was thinking too much in terms of technology in 1983.   Should have patented it for the future -- I would have gotten my patent bonus, and whomever owns AT&T patents today would be more rich.

 

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB4
 

Also NVMEof so the concept of “converged fabric” ... the new NICs at least can run whatever protocol is desired. The newest NICs have a processor on the NIC itself so this design pattern of something like a Zynq as a universal protocol interface is becoming ubiquitous. Unsure how this helps audio because most DACs use copper USB-2 input so really if you want fiberoptic SFP, you are limited to either Ethernet or a custom hardware which requires you to implement both ends of the link. Even Ethernet needs some embedded software eg NAA or DLNA 

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