Internet blind comparison of two USB cables

[davide256]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

This started as a proposal for an internet blind test on another thread: 

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/62140-asr-audio-science-review-forum-youtube-channel/?do=findComment&comment=1113069

 

@PeterSt's Lush^2 cable against a generic USB cable, used to generate a recording that can then be tested by others.

 

Claim:  Lush^2 produces an obviously audible difference that can be detected 10 out of 10 times by Peter and others in a blind test

 

Test: The test will be fairly simple: play music using a PC (iMac) over USB cables, A or B, directly into the DAC. Feed the analog output from the DAC into a quality pro ADC (Apogee Element24, which I've tested and measured before and know it measures well) and record this to a digital file. Rename and randomize the samples and upload them for a listening test. I can even publish measurements for these afterwards, if there's interest. Those hearing obvious differences can use an AB or ABX comparator that produces a digitally signed result and the result can then be shared when reporting your findings (FooBar ABX comparator, for example, also DeltaWave and a few others that I've seen). You're welcome to use any other testing mechanism if you want to listen for yourself, but your results will be harder to be confirmed by others. 

 

Lush^2 cable will be configured as follows, per Peter: A:B-W-Y-R, B:B-W-R
 

Before setting up the test, I'd to solicit any ideas here on how to improve the test and methodology, so please post your thoughts, concerns, and ideas here.

Test as proposed is invalid because of  added "whisper chain" errors.

needs to be done live, not "Memorex"

 

I have about 8 other USB cables running between $10~$200... the ones with brit press recommendations were a waste of money, as was the belkin cable.

Wireworld starlight is my second best but it doesn't resolve as well as Lush 2

 

All the chatter about different shield configurations hasn't panned out for me, don't really hear a difference

 

I could hear the difference with Gungnir MB and Chord mojo(using AQ micro USB adaptor).

 

 

[davide256]

Just now, pkane2001 said:

 

Can you explain why this might be the case?

Sure.

 

1) you are limiting/coloring results by the digital capture solution

2) any tester is adding limitations/coloring results by the solution they use to do a second generation decoding

 

We use 2nd hand observation for places we can't go like Mars, but that always flawed compared to 1st hand direct observation

which provides more sensory data.

 

 

 

[davide256]

37 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Well, that's easy to verify (and has been done before, just not with this ADC). I'll run multiple iterations of the recording in a loop through the ADC, and if you can hear the difference, then the "coloring" is significant. If you can't, then it's audibly transparent.

You trust your instruments not to miss anything, that what they can’t detect can’t be heard by human ears. Quite a prejudice. The interesting parts of science that we learn from are what we can observe but not yet explain. To do this properly you need to observe directly, not depend on unwise assumptions from unneeded extra steps. Best practices approach would be to take another cable with similar length, similar A-B ends to the Lush 2, wrap them with like covering, label 1 X, the other Y and send to a series of reviewers to serially provide feedback on a standard form. 5 would probably be enough for directionally correct results if you insured all had good systems, much larger sample required if screening crappy hardware was done at the tail end of collecting observations

[davide256]

16 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

Sorry, since what I’m proposing is a listening test, I don’t see how your criticism about instruments applies.

 the effect of the Lush 2 is not to change  recorded bits, its to allow the connected gear sending/receiving the bits to behave better, reduce signal contaminants that stress USB I/O circuits, resulting in poorer real time performance. You can't hear this if the Lush 2 is not in circuit. Your methodology

just adds the problem back in.

[davide256]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

 

Did I argue about changed bits? You seem to be on a different track than the rest of the discussion. If you see a problem with what's being proposed, please propose a different methodology.

I stated earlier  the valid way to test, a classic A-B blind test.. your test is the equivalent of hearsay... the testers aren't in the room to observe first hand

anything that your test method is not capturing

 

"Best practices approach would be to take another cable with similar length, similar A-B ends to the Lush 2, wrap them with like covering, label 1 X, the other Y and send to a series of reviewers to serially provide feedback on a standard form. 5 would probably be enough for directionally correct results if you insured all had good systems, much larger sample required if screening crappy hardware was done at the tail end of collecting observations "

[davide256]

3 minutes ago, pkane2001 said:

 

That's a good test, but much harder to conduct properly in the days of COVID and, in general, for a distributed audience spread over multiple continents. Maybe in a year or so we can do something like that. For now, sharing recorded files is the best we can do.

I don't think you will get useable data out of this but it would be a good practice run to develop/standardize user experience questions, try to make sure everyone covers

the same territory in comparative results. The areas that stand out to me

 

1) treble tone color completeness

2) mid range tone color completeness

3) bass tone color/texture ( bass becomes felt as well as heard) completeness

4) transient attack/decay

5) dynamic range

6) resolution of massed playing instruments, ie full string section playing a theme all at same time is more challenging than a trio

 

Any music chosen should check the box as outstanding on at least 3  and reviewers asked to pay attention to the passages used as reference for evaluation