PeterSt Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, lucretius said: Same here. My hearing falls off at 16K Hz and all filters and upsampling sound the same to me. and some told you that reconstruction filters relate to higher frequencies only, right ? Expectation bias that is ! haha Jud 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Popular Post PeterSt Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, Jud said: How can something too subtle to be consciously noticed have an emotional effect? Jud, it works the other way around. By far most of the changes made in the chain, trigger subconscious effects. Not because any scientific test tells this (or debunks it) because because I tell you. At these levels (say today's) you can't listen for better highs or less muffled sound or anything. But you can easily notice the foot tapping, or singing along. You won't do that - you will notice that you are doing it (after the fact). Bill Brown and Jud 1 1 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 minute ago, PeterSt said: Not because any scientific test tells this (or debunks it) because because I tell you. My parents used to tell me things and use this reasoning. It didn't turn out well. PeterSt, lucretius, botrytis and 1 other 4 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post PeterSt Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: My parents used to tell me things and use this reasoning. It didn't turn out well. Probably the difference being deaf** and able to hear ? ;-) **) Selective deafness. Btw, not sure how to respond to this. Half of the people in this thread seem to be deaf. All I am saying is that "at these levels" you can't use your ears only any more. Your brain is at work and you'd have to listen (observe) that. IOW: Nobody is deaf. But you need to learn how to listen. Among that is observing your wife. Or kids for that matter. sandyk and Superdad 2 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Miska Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 22 minutes ago, PeterSt said: ... which would mean that a. they are different physically b. that this implies a subj ... ... ... Sure they can have different roll-off curve shape and such. Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 20 minutes ago, PeterSt said: Half of the people in this thread seem to be deaf. Another sentence that isn't going to turn out well. lucretius 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
botrytis Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Accept for the unavoidable fact that the room plays a huge role in the sound. Agree and how the whole recording studio is setup. Both the listening room and the recording room do affect the final sound. one can't get away from it. The Computer Audiophile 1 Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
Jud Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, pkane2001 said: Hi Jud, Breaking out in cold sweat might be more related to being inside an fMRI machine than perceiving the effects of ultrasonic frequencies. Just guessing ;) 🙂 No fMRI in these particular studies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_gambling_task One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
pkane2001 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jud said: 🙂 No fMRI in these particular studies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iowa_gambling_task I think I've seen this one before ;) Jud 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Jud Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, JoshM said: I definitely prefer linear phase, too. I wonder if some people are more sensitive to phase issues? It may have quite a bit to do with speakers and room. With speakers like mine, set up to be linear phase, non-linear-phase filters obscure the imaging and soundstaging qualities owners seek. On the other hand, if you have room configuration causing a frequency-dependent timing problem and you can't easily change the room, then a non-linear-phase filter can be your friend. And of course there are many other uses for such filters. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Popular Post PeterSt Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: 3 hours ago, PeterSt said: Half of the people in this thread seem to be deaf. Another sentence that isn't going to turn out well. More ? Rexp and lucretius 2 Lush^3-e Lush^2 Blaxius^2.5 Ethernet^3 HDMI^2 XLR^2 XXHighEnd (developer) Phasure NOS1 24/768 Async USB DAC (manufacturer) Phasure Mach III Audio PC with Linear PSU (manufacturer) Orelino & Orelo MKII Speakers (designer/supplier) Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Another sentence that isn't going to turn out well. Hopefully no one takes it too personally and doesn't mind some curmudgeonly (provocative?) input :) Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
Bill Brown Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Jud said: It may have quite a bit to do with speakers and room. With speakers like mine, set up to be linear phase, non-linear-phase filters obscure the imaging and soundstaging qualities owners seek. Interesting. I strongly prefer minimum-phase (even with single-drivers (headphones) that would be analogous to your phase-coherent speakers), exactly for the reasons you state for linear phase- soundstaging, but also tone. Bill Labels assigned by CA members: "Cogley's ML sock-puppet," "weaponizer of psychology," "ethically-challenged," "professionally dubious," "machismo," "lover of old westerns," "shill," "expert on ducks and imposters," "Janitor in Chief," "expert in Karate," "ML fanboi or employee," "Alabama Trump supporter with an NRA decal on the windshield of his car," sycophant Link to comment
lucretius Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, PeterSt said: and some told you that reconstruction filters relate to higher frequencies only, right ? Expectation bias that is ! haha Actually, I was expecting there to be a difference but I could not point it out in blind testing. Maybe, it I had used a leaky filter the result would be different? mQa is dead! Link to comment
lucretius Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 6 hours ago, Jud said: How can something too subtle to be consciously noticed have an emotional effect? There is academic research showing emotional effects up to and including breaking out in a cold sweat from subconscious stimuli. I'd have to be convinced it wasn't a placebo effect. mQa is dead! Link to comment
lucretius Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, botrytis said: Agree and how the whole recording studio is setup. Both the listening room and the recording room do affect the final sound. one can't get away from it. I thought when they playback in the studio, they use headphones. mQa is dead! Link to comment
lucretius Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, PeterSt said: Half of the people in this thread seem to be deaf. At least more so than are willing to admit it. mQa is dead! Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 21 minutes ago, lucretius said: I thought when they playback in the studio, they use headphones. I've never seen headphones used in the studio, but that doesn't mean much. Certainly musicians do, but for mixing and mastering I've only seen it on studio monitors. botrytis 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
botrytis Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, lucretius said: I thought when they playback in the studio, they use headphones. Not always. Depends. Current: Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590 Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects Link to comment
fas42 Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 9 hours ago, Jud said: I assume Miska (1) doesn't have superhuman hearing, and (2) might do a reasonable job at being able to discern differences in HQPlayer filters. (Either assumption could be wrong of course, the second more likely.) If true, this might mean different emotional reactions to music played through filters in which the untrained cannot consciously discern differences. What's rarely mentioned is what I consider the main thing happening - the circuitry doing the filtering is altering the pattern of electrical behaviour that the sensitive analogue areas are reacting to, as an interference artifact - and the subjective SQ alters. This was so obvious on an ambitious rig I listened to - changing the filters changed the nature of the SQ degradation - the only setting that 'worked' was bypassing that filtering circuitry, altogether 🙂, Link to comment
Rexp Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Accept for the unavoidable fact that the room plays a huge role in the sound. Not if you use headphones. Link to comment
charlesphoto Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 4 hours ago, lucretius said: I thought when they playback in the studio, they use headphones. Bedroom studios, but rarely if never in purpose made sound studios. For one thing there's often more than one set of ears, and even then, if only the producer or mixer, headphones have a different sound than speakers in the 'booth.' Musicians recording do wear headphones, often because they are playing in different rooms, or one at a time. Bill Brown 1 SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)> LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, Rexp said: Not if you use headphones. Then you have a whole other set of issues. pkane2001 and Foggie 2 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post pkane2001 Posted March 18, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, Rexp said: Not if you use headphones. The headphones to ear interaction is no less complex than speakers to room and in some ways more. sandyk, Foggie and The Computer Audiophile 2 1 -Paul DeltaWave, DISTORT, Earful, PKHarmonic, new: Multitone Analyzer Link to comment
Rexp Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Then you have a whole other set of issues. Like what? Link to comment
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