ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[sdolezalek]

Maybe a few higher level principles could turn this endless debate into something more useful:

 

1) Complete and accurate measurements are useful and important, but:

    a) first problem - we often don't know what all the relevant measurements should be;

    b) second problem - we may not be able to measure all that matters;

    c) third problem - selective use of data can turn valid measurements into non-helpful conclusions;

    d) fourth problem - even engineers don't always measure correctly;

2) The listeners ear ultimately determines what is useful and important to him/her, but:

    a) first problem - we don't all hear alike, so what's great for you may not be for me; 

    b) second problem - even if we can correlate hearing preferences to measurements, we each weight our preferences differently;

    c) third problem - we listen to sound systems, not DACs, amplifiers, speakers which means interactions between equipment matter -- my DAC may sound better in my system than in yours

3) Which leads me to the conclusion that to make intelligent choices I must:

    a) pay attention to available measurements, but take them with a grain of salt;

    b) pay attention to what others (whose opinions I value, and a few who I may disagree with but who have expertise) like and dislike and WHY;

    c) listen to as many different components and systems as possible and try to make my own judgements;

    d) recognize that just like with wines (what I like as a novice is highly likely to change as my learning/listening improves) 

 

[sphinxsix]

2 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

Sensible approach?

 

Ok, it is, to some degree at least.

I will not commit seppuku although Yukio Mishima used to be an interesting guy to me, but I must admit some things.

First of all, being an audio dealer I used to be in a quite privileged situation as for the access to the audio gear, possibilities of testing it in comfortable situation etc. I actually used to say that in fact an average customer is in quite hopeless situation - with press which is often but not always corrupt, with dealers often more interested in selling one gear than the other cause they have eg a 3% higher margin on it, with limited possibilities of comfortable comparative listening sessions in a shop and last but not least with audio fora 'experts', the ones who just got their second amp and it is better than their previous one and the one they compared it to before decision, so their knowledge of amplifiers based on 3 amps is broad as the sky, you know what I mean..

Secondly I mostly attacked ASR, not you and I hope we are not deadly enemies (I have no life insurance)..

BTW I've just realized (I almost didn't visit the ASR site earlier) that whilst Amir listens to the speakers which he reviews, he doesn't listen to eg amps and DACs which may definitely be a confirmation of my old theory that I shared here years ago when sharing such theories could result in becoming an object of (nomen omen) objectivist lynch here (luckily those times are over and I've survived somehow).. 

The theory is simple - the extreme objectivists who rely solely on measurements and numbers do so, because they have no choice - they simply can't hear a damn thing. Since it is not possible to measure the differences between cables they all must sound the same. In case of speakers or headphones the differences in SQ are too obvious not to notice them, hence Amir listens to speakers and doesn't care about the remaining gear - the measurements tell him if it's good or not. Very simple!

The whole thing most probably has to do with the problem of male inches which I mentioned earlier - after all what was the first important audio measurement..? The power of course! Like I also said earlier the luck of trust in one's organ, in this case, ears is also involved 

BTW as for hearing of the subtle differences between audio components - IME this ability can be trained, I would say that probably 20% of it is predisposed and 80% can be gained by training. I IMO at least started at a quite low point in this regard, hence to this point of sdolezalek's post which IMO makes lots of sense:

  

1 hour ago, sdolezalek said:

3) Which leads me to the conclusion that to make intelligent choices I must:

    a) pay attention to available measurements, but take them with a grain of salt;

    b) pay attention to what others (whose opinions I value, and a few who I may disagree with but who have expertise) like and dislike and WHY;

    c) listen to as many different components and systems as possible and try to make my own judgements;

    d) recognize that just like with wines (what I like as a novice is highly likely to change as my learning/listening improves) 

 

I would add, rely on more experienced listeners as for what can be heard in music material and train your hearing.

 

Have a good evening! Cheers!

 

[Josh Mound]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:31 PM, plissken said:

Anyone could shut up the entire objective bent of ASR if they would only sit down for a true blind session of say two DAC's that measure incredibly close but spend $$ incredibly far apart. Same thing for speaker, line, power cables that supposedly make a difference but the measurement data doesn't support the supposition.

 

That would remove any leg that Amir has to stand on.

People have done that. Marv at SBAF went to great length to do blind tests. They were posted at ASR and dismissed. Same with Schiit, which has used blind tests to evaluate products. The Schiit representative on ASR discussed that, and those tests were dismissed. 
 

It’s essentially become a tautological, no-true-Scotsman thing at ASR. If someone hears a difference, they must’ve done the test wrong. If someone doesn’t hear a difference, they must’ve done the test right. 
 

The problem is that confirmation bias runs both ways. If one expects there’s no difference between two pieces of equipment, it’s essentially impossible for them to fail to say “I hear no difference.”

[Josh Mound]

On 2/25/2021 at 4:21 PM, plissken said:

 

He's repeatedly said he's not out to subjectively evaluate DAC's.

 

I'll drop another truth bomb for everyone here. He's doing something right and I believe this is just the tip of the ice burg. Throw in the social media platforms that he's going to start engaging. And here's another take away: $0 advertising dollars.

 

ASR

 

AS

 

ASR Metrics:

 

AS

 

Here’s the thing about ASR, at least in my view: 

 

Amir is providing something both financially and psychologically valuable to his donors and fans. He’s saving them money by telling them that one can get literally the best setup “scientifically possible” for a few hundred dollars. He’s also telling them that they should feel superior to “audiophools” paying more than that. 
 

Putting aside suspicions about his relationship with certain manufacturers (and the undeniable fact that he’s a dealer for others), I’m sure Amir figured out early that dunking on Schiit and other “HiFi” brands, while praising Topping and other cheap(er) brands brought him lots of clicks, donations, and clout. This has become a self-reinforcing cycle. 
 

Initially, I felt that this was unfortunate, in that lots of people were missing out on the chance of hearing better gear. But at least they weren’t wasting big bucks on Amir’s “recommended” gear. However, now Topping is putting out >$500 products, as well as ones that are blowing up people’s headphones (and possibly blowing out their ears). We’re now at a whole other level of damage to the hobby, IMHO. 
 

The frustrating part is that there are plenty of quality products out there that don’t cost an arm and a leg. They’re just usually not the ones that catch on at ASR.

[Josh Mound]

On 2/25/2021 at 9:07 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Not at all. We had this discussion previously in another thread. Ranking items based on measurements is a disservice and has nothing to do with being well engineered when the "top" 70% of DACs don't have any issues that humans can hear. 

 

Is it a good design decision to spend more money on engineering, thus making the product cost more, if all that it gets you is a lower nose floor that is even further below the level of human hearing? To the objective crowd, such a device deserves to be ranked better than another product, even though to humans there can be no difference when listening (according to them).

 

It's all about pleasing themselves, not educating consumers.

Exactly!

Not to mention that, as the case of the ASR-endorsed powered JBLs shows, Amir himself cannot hear even fairly high amplifier distortion. 
 

In almost every case, your transducer is going to measure worse than your DAC or amp. Chasing 110 SINAD versus 100 or even 80 SINAD in a DAC becomes silly. 
 

God bless people if they’re happy with their gear, regardless of price. This hobby should be a big tent. But it’s wrong IMHO when people like Amir mislead others about what’s “science” and encourage an epistemic closure that involves openly mocking anyone who disagrees. 

[botrytis]

Exactly. I am a lower tier person and I admit it. But, I enjoy listening to everything and all levels of equipment but I can tell you when something is off. Measurements, hearing IN YOUR ROOM, etc. all need to be done.

[plissken]

2 hours ago, JoshM said:

Here’s the thing about ASR, at least in my view: 

 

Amir is providing something both financially and psychologically valuable to his donors and fans. He’s saving them money by telling them that one can get literally the best setup “scientifically possible” for a few hundred dollars. He’s also telling them that they should feel superior to “audiophools” paying more than that. 
 

Putting aside suspicions about his relationship with certain manufacturers (and the undeniable fact that he’s a dealer for others), I’m sure Amir figured out early that dunking on Schiit and other “HiFi” brands, while praising Topping and other cheap(er) brands brought him lots of clicks, donations, and clout. This has become a self-reinforcing cycle. 

 

I don't get this logic. Amir is testing anything sent to him. Items that measure incredibly well that compete directly with what Digital Madrona sells.

 

IMO this argument holds no water.

2 hours ago, JoshM said:

Initially, I felt that this was unfortunate, in that lots of people were missing out on the chance of hearing better gear. But at least they weren’t wasting big bucks on Amir’s “recommended” gear. However, now Topping is putting out >$500 products, as well as ones that are blowing up people’s headphones (and possibly blowing out their ears). We’re now at a whole other level of damage to the hobby,

IMHO. 

 

No one is being prevented from demoing or purchasing what they want. Also didn't Schiit have the Lyr that was eating headphones?

 

LOL 'whole other level of damage to the hobby'. Please....

2 hours ago, JoshM said:

The frustrating part is that there are plenty of quality products out there that don’t cost an arm and a leg. They’re just usually not the ones that catch on at ASR.

 

Amir tests items all the time that are sent to him. If you have something that you want to see what it does objectively then send it in. I've sent him a few items and plan on sending in a few more.

[asdf1000]

5 hours ago, JoshM said:

Here’s the thing about ASR, at least in my view: 

 

Amir is providing something both financially and psychologically valuable to his donors and fans. He’s saving them money by telling them that one can get literally the best setup “scientifically possible” for a few hundred dollars. He’s also telling them that they should feel superior to “audiophools” paying more than that. 

 

I appreciate you saying this is your view and of course I respect that but just my comments for discussion.

 

When you are saying "for a few hundred dollars" you don't mention DACs but I assume you are talking about DACs.

 

Where does he say " they should feel superior to “audiophools” paying more than that" , more than a few hundred dollars for these:

 

Where in his US$3500 Universal Audio Apollo X16 review ?

 

Where in his US$1900 Chord Qutest review ?

 

Where in his US$1200 RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 review ?

 

So your comment with these examples doesn't really hold up.... I could list more examples.

 

Remember he has moved on to things that make sound and the amps that drive them. He himself says this is where highest distortions are and he himself says this is why he started measuring those... People's obsessions over DAC SINADs is still going strong for some reason. 

 

5 hours ago, JoshM said:

Putting aside suspicions about his relationship with certain manufacturers (and the undeniable fact that he’s a dealer for others), I’m sure Amir figured out early that dunking on Schiit and other “HiFi” brands, while praising Topping and other cheap(er) brands brought him lots of clicks, donations, and clout. This has become a self-reinforcing cycle. 

 

Can you share a specific example of this 'self-reinforcing cycle' ? Or are you talking about a couple years ago still?

 

You mentioned Schiit Audio but they are now sending Amir products to measure and he is recommending them. They measure well.

 

So that example of dunking on HiFi brands (you mentioned Schiit) is no longer valid.

 

5 hours ago, JoshM said:

Initially, I felt that this was unfortunate, in that lots of people were missing out on the chance of hearing better gear. But at least they weren’t wasting big bucks on Amir’s “recommended” gear. However, now Topping is putting out >$500 products, as well as ones that are blowing up people’s headphones (and possibly blowing out their ears). We’re now at a whole other level of damage to the hobby, IMHO. 

 

This Topping fault is indeed a problem, I agree. 

 

Since you brought up Schiit, remember Amir did a 'teardown' of an early Schiit product where he showed the internals were dangerously arranged...

 

Now Schiit are sending him gear and it's getting great measurements and recommended.

 

5 hours ago, JoshM said:

The frustrating part is that there are plenty of quality products out there that don’t cost an arm and a leg. They’re just usually not the ones that catch on at ASR.

 

So send something in if you want it to "catch on at ASR" ? Remember how his reviews work. General public can send in, manufacturers can send in.

 

Complaining that a particular product hasn't caught on at ASR is just like complaining a particular product hasn't caught on John Atkinson's listed of measured gear at Stereophile.

 

But in that example, I don't think JA will just accept anything from anyone on the street to measure ;-)

 

It's also just like complaining that a particular product hasn't caught on here on the front page... you review what you have in hand... obviously.

 

5 hours ago, JoshM said:

In almost every case, your transducer is going to measure worse than your DAC or amp. Chasing 110 SINAD versus 100 or even 80 SINAD in a DAC becomes silly. 

 

I agree. I mentioned numerous times in this thread that Amir has moved on to measuring the components with highest distortions. His readers and general readers are still obsessed with DAC SINAD values and ranking but if that's what people are most interested in, so be it.

 

He shares a lot more measurements than SINAD. Because he and everyone knows (well I thought everyone knows but..) one measurement alone is useless. Measurements that the designers of your own gear probably do too :-)

 

 

 

[Josh Mound]

20 hours ago, plissken said:

 

I don't get this logic. Amir is testing anything sent to him. Items that measure incredibly well that compete directly with what Digital Madrona sells.

 

IMO this argument holds no water.

 

No one is being prevented from demoing or purchasing what they want. Also didn't Schiit have the Lyr that was eating headphones?

 

LOL 'whole other level of damage to the hobby'. Please....

 

Amir tests items all the time that are sent to him. If you have something that you want to see what it does objectively then send it in. I've sent him a few items and plan on sending in a few more.

 

17 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

I appreciate you saying this is your view and of course I respect that but just my comments for discussion.

 

When you are saying "for a few hundred dollars" you don't mention DACs but I assume you are talking about DACs.

 

Where does he say " they should feel superior to “audiophools” paying more than that" , more than a few hundred dollars for these:

 

Where in his US$3500 Universal Audio Apollo X16 review ?

 

Where in his US$1900 Chord Qutest review ?

 

Where in his US$1200 RME ADI-2 FS Version 2 review ?

 

So your comment with these examples doesn't really hold up.... I could list more examples.

 

Remember he has moved on to things that make sound and the amps that drive them. He himself says this is where highest distortions are and he himself says this is why he started measuring those... People's obsessions over DAC SINADs is still going strong for some reason. 

 

 

Can you share a specific example of this 'self-reinforcing cycle' ? Or are you talking about a couple years ago still?

 

You mentioned Schiit Audio but they are now sending Amir products to measure and he is recommending them. They measure well.

 

So that example of dunking on HiFi brands (you mentioned Schiit) is no longer valid.

 

 

This Topping fault is indeed a problem, I agree. 

 

Since you brought up Schiit, remember Amir did a 'teardown' of an early Schiit product where he showed the internals were dangerously arranged...

 

Now Schiit are sending him gear and it's getting great measurements and recommended.

 

 

So send something in if you want it to "catch on at ASR" ? Remember how his reviews work. General public can send in, manufacturers can send in.

 

Complaining that a particular product hasn't caught on at ASR is just like complaining a particular product hasn't caught on John Atkinson's listed of measured gear at Stereophile.

 

But in that example, I don't think JA will just accept anything from anyone on the street to measure ;-)

 

It's also just like complaining that a particular product hasn't caught on here on the front page... you review what you have in hand... obviously.

 

 

I agree. I mentioned numerous times in this thread that Amir has moved on to measuring the components with highest distortions. His readers and general readers are still obsessed with DAC SINAD values and ranking but if that's what people are most interested in, so be it.

 

He shares a lot more measurements than SINAD. Because he and everyone knows (well I thought everyone knows but..) one measurement alone is useless. Measurements that the designers of your own gear probably do too :-)

 

 

 

 

The mantra at ASR is that it's pointless to spend more for, say, a DAC unless one wants additional features. For example, the Qutest review is a tepid recommendation that concludes a DAC with an off-the-shelf chip "would be just as good and cost a lot less." The assumption is that anything that measures above a certain threshold is "audibly transparent" and therefore anyone who says that DACs in that range sound different are fooling themselves. (According to ASR, the Apple headphone dongle is superior to the Yggdrasil. C'mon.)

 

The Schiit teardowns are a perfect example of the uneven treatment of different brands. Schiit was one the few companies subjected to teardowns there, and Amir nitpicked solder specks. The original Lyr had some DC offset. Shiit fixed that in subsequent versions and replaced any damaged headphones (something, it's worth noting, that Topping has specifically said it will not do with its amp). As someone who owned Topping products long before ASR existed, and who has since, I can say without hesitation that the build quality and customer support is far below that of a company like Schiit. Price doesn't necessarily correlate to sound, but it usually has something to do with build quality and support. (Besides paying less for labor in a country like China, the money has to come from somewhere.) 

 

Schiit's response to ASR's focus on inaudible SINAD chasing has been to create things like the Heresy. To my ears, it sounds worse than the non-Heresy version. But it measures well, so it's a winner at ASR. It's a clever move by Schiit to tap into that market, but it doesn't interest me personally. 

 

If ASR were simply measurements of gear with no commentary, it would be less of an issue. (Though, as has been well-documented, his measurements are not always accurate.) Unfortunately, the site is more about Amir's idiosyncratic viewpoints, as with his defense of MQA, than "science."

 

Just as an example of the damage to the hobby mentioned above, here’s a person on ASR who went through four of the Topping amps Amir recommended. All four were faulty, one fried a pair of headphones, and one fried another piece of gear. Imagine if Schiit or some other unfavored (at ASR) manufacturer put out a product like this. 

[Josh Mound]

On 2/26/2021 at 9:40 AM, The Computer Audiophile said:

Let's move the tea discussion here - 

 

 

Shameful anti-coffee agenda. I expect better from you, Chris! ☕🤣

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, JoshM said:

 

Shameful anti-coffee agenda. I expect better from you, Chris! ☕🤣

Ha!

[firedog]

7 minutes ago, JoshM said:

 

Shameful anti-coffee agenda. I expect better from you, Chris! ☕🤣

Yeah, I just roasted 400 grams. An in addition to fresh coffee, I get that great smell.

[plissken]

2 hours ago, JoshM said:

If ASR were simply measurements of gear with no commentary, it would be less of an issue. (Though, as has been well-documented, his measurements are not always accurate.) Unfortunately, the site is more about Amir's idiosyncratic viewpoints, as with his defense of MQA, than "science."

 

Amir started ASR to run the site he wanted to run without the baggage he had in a business partner at WBF. Early in the thread I posted traffic data and it appears that its working. He's been around less time and done more with a non-vendor sponsored site.

 

Amir isn't perfect, but for some things as they stand right now, he's the best we got.

 

Chris picked up an AP analyzer and started the objectify forum and I thought we were going to have some of what Amir is doing here. I'd still like to see it happen.

 

I think a product can be made to measure and sound differently and that difference marketed. I've had tubed gear before and I understand what people are after regard to that 'tube' sound. That may be what people are liking about R2R, Multibit, Tube-pre, Tube-amp or other. I've no issue with that. I'm sure if Schiit made a 'clean' yggy there is subset of customers that would be upset.

[Josh Mound]

45 minutes ago, plissken said:

Lu

Amir started ASR to run the site he wanted to run without the baggage he had in a business partner at WBF. Early in the thread I posted traffic data and it appears that its working. He's been around less time and done more with a non-vendor sponsored site.

 

Amir isn't perfect, but for some things as they stand right now, he's the best we got.

 

Chris picked up an AP analyzer and started the objectify forum and I thought we were going to have some of what Amir is doing here. I'd still like to see it happen.

 

I think a product can be made to measure and sound differently and that difference marketed. I've had tubed gear before and I understand what people are after regard to that 'tube' sound. That may be what people are liking about R2R, Multibit, Tube-pre, Tube-amp or other. I've no issue with that. I'm sure if Schiit made a 'clean' yggy there is subset of customers that would be upset.

I don’t think Amir’s getting banned from a forum he co-founded is a ringing endorsement of his acumen. (Nor, frankly, are the products Microsoft put out when he was in charge of audio there.)

 

As I said earlier, ASR presents a worldview that says both that you can have world-class sound for a few hundred bucks and that you’re much smarter than “audiophools” who pay more. I have no doubt that such a message is bound to make one popular. It saves people money and strokes their egos. But popularity doesn’t equal correctness. Lots of dogmatic faiths gain fervent adherents. Even when I generally agree with a certain view, I get turned off when it’s presented too condescendingly or overconfidently. For example, I’m an agnostic, but I get really annoyed by the atheists who spend all of their time portraying religious people as rubes. 
 

Likewise, I think measurements are tremendously valuable. They’re just not the be-all-end-all that ASR makes them out to be. I’d support @The Computer Audiophile getting into measurements, and I think he’d do a much better job than Amir does. However, I can understand why he might not want to do that. It’s not the measurements that make ASR popular, it’s the ideology that they’re wrapped in. After all, other people out there do much more detailed measurements than Amir does (AtomicBob comes to mind), but they’re far less popular than ASR is because they’re more nuanced in how they present them. 

[lucretius]

17 minutes ago, JoshM said:

I don’t think Amir’s getting banned from a forum he co-founded is a ringing endorsement of his acumen. (Nor, frankly, are the products Microsoft put out when he was in charge of audio there.)

 

As I said earlier, ASR presents a worldview that says both that you can have world-class sound for a few hundred bucks and that you’re much smarter than “audiophools” who pay more. I have no doubt that such a message is bound to make one popular. It saves people money and strokes their egos. But popularity doesn’t equal correctness. Lots of dogmatic faiths gain fervent adherents. Even when I generally agree with a certain view, I get turned off when it’s presented too condescendingly or overconfidently. For example, I’m an agnostic, but I get really annoyed by the atheists who spend all of their time portraying religious people as rubes. 
 

Likewise, I think measurements are tremendously valuable. They’re just not the be-all-end-all that ASR makes them out to be. I’d support @The Computer Audiophile getting into measurements, and I think he’d do a much better job than Amir does. However, I can understand why he might not want to do that. It’s not the measurements that make ASR popular, it’s the ideology that they’re wrapped in. After all, other people out there do much more detailed measurements than Amir does (AtomicBob comes to mind), but they’re far less popular than ASR is because they’re more nuanced in how they present them. 

 

I've been to the ASR website on various occasions. It is what it is.  It seems like you are taking this way too personal, like you are holding a grudge.  Did Amir commit some wrong against you?  Were you taken aback by the assessment of the Schiit Yggdrasil, etc.?

[Josh Mound]

54 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

I've been to the ASR website on various occasions. It is what it is.  It seems like you are taking this way too personal, like you are holding a grudge.  Did Amir commit some wrong against you?  Were you taken aback by the assessment of the Schiit Yggdrasil, etc.?

 

It's pretty simple. I don't like it when consumers are being mislead. I also don't like when companies and engineers are insulted as incompetent for no reason. Reviewers have a basic responsibility of fairness to to the products and companies they review. I don't think Amir takes that responsibility very seriously. 

[Superdad]

On 2/27/2021 at 10:12 AM, PeterSt said:

Amir laughs his ass out over the back of Alex Crespi, and all contestants will laugh their asses out over the customers who'd also may score a 10/10 in their homes.

It's okay Peter. I am the one who is laughing--all the way to the bank.  In fact, whenever Amir posts screeds about our products our sales go up!

 

It is a little odd that he prefers to come after UpTone. Why not pick on the $1800 SOtM switch, the $2200 Melco switch, the $3100 JCAT/Telegartner M12 Gold, or the new $3500 Innuos PhoenixNET switch?  With our $640 EtherREGEN we show the circuit board and explain the (100% unique for a Ethernet switch) innovations we incorporate. We skip the vague marketing. Just let people try for themselves.

 

 

One bit of humor for the day is that Alan March (March Audio in Australia, who puts Khadas Tone Boards and Purifi Audio class D amps into Chinese chassis) got banned from ASR--and he claims it was because he felt Amir's speaker reviews were too subjective!  So then he signs up under another name to start a thread to debate/berate the moderator over the ban: https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/please-explain.20848/

I admit to taking slight glee in this as Alan was frequently incredibly nasty--and personal--in his comments towards John and I, which the "moderators" there never batted an eye at. Karma... 

[danadam]

9 minutes ago, Superdad said:

It is a little odd that he prefers to come after UpTone. Why not pick on the $1800 SOtM switch, the $2200 Melco switch, the $3100 JCAT/Telegartner M12 Gold, or the new $3500 Innuos PhoenixNET switch?

IIRC it was told on several occasions already, that he tests what people send him, so I'm not sure what is so odd about it. I'm sure that if you send him all those things, he will gladly pick on them too 🙂

[acg]

@Superdadwatch out...you may need to consider contributions/commission to ASR in order to get more bad press.  Would that be a good investment?  haha.

 

That Aus guy tends to be incredibly nasty and personal to everybody that does not tow his line...a true keyboard warrior.  

[Miska]

13 hours ago, Superdad said:

One bit of humor for the day is that Alan March (March Audio in Australia, who puts Khadas Tone Boards and Purifi Audio class D amps into Chinese chassis) got banned from ASR--and he claims it was because he felt Amir's speaker reviews were too subjective!  So then he signs up under another name to start a thread to debate/berate the moderator over the ban: https://www.audio “science” review/forum/index.php?threads/please-explain.20848/

I admit to taking slight glee in this as Alan was frequently incredibly nasty--and personal--in his comments towards John and I, which the "moderators" there never batted an eye at. Karma... 

 

Also one of the guys who made me stop going to ASR.

 

Not that I feel that the site would have much to offer for me, and the stuff I could give to the forum wasn't welcome either.

 

[Kimo]

Moderator, please move this thread to the Objective-Fi forum.

 

                                         Amir

[semente]

On 2/27/2021 at 4:12 PM, PeterSt said:

If you put up such a test then you'd be doing the very same as Amir. You may like his methods, but I blatantly disagree. Amir laughs his ass out over the back of Alex Crespi, and all contestants will laugh their asses out over the customers who'd also may score a 10/10 in their homes. They (Lush users) will of course join too (I won't) and they all will score 5/5. And Paul is laughing and laughing and laughing because finally he is right.

After changing the goal posts.

 

It doesn't work like that.

This reminds me of Toole’s proposed theory that listening to speakers in mono is more discriminating because the rating differences were larger than when the assessment of the same three speakers was performed in stereo.

What seems to have happened is that the listening panel was coached to prefer wide dispersion and rated this type of speaker higher when in mono because it produced increased envelopment than narrow dispersion models.

This is called science.

 

[plissken]

20 hours ago, danadam said:

IIRC it was told on several occasions already, that he tests what people send him, so I'm not sure what is so odd about it. I'm sure that if you send him all those things, he will gladly pick on them too 🙂

 

If UpTone sales increased because of representation at ASR I would think @superdad would send them their entire lineup, no?

[ASRMichael]

I’ve never been on the ASR Forum before so I thought I’d have a small peak!  
 

mmmm....not sure I’ll be going there again! 
 

This post is in reference to the Taiko Extreme...so many opinions rather than say I’ve heard it and I think X! 

 

I think users here need to understand how good this forum is compared to some of the horse sxxt out there! Excuse my french! 

[The Computer Audiophile]

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I’ve never been on the ASR Forum before

 

 

5 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

mmmm....not sure I’ll be going there again! 

My condolences for your choice of username.