ASR Audio Science Review forum YouTube Channel

[plissken]

I can assure you that I'm indeed a cat. Joe is a penguin. I see him at my AA meetings.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, JoeWhip said:

ACs but doesn’t even take the time to listen to them and do comparisons. I believe in measurements but make my final decisions after listening. At least he listened to these speakers for 10 seconds before he decided all was good.

 

He's repeatedly said he's not out to subjectively evaluate DAC's.

 

I'll drop another truth bomb for everyone here. He's doing something right and I believe this is just the tip of the ice burg. Throw in the social media platforms that he's going to start engaging. And here's another take away: $0 advertising dollars.

 

ASR

 

AS

 

ASR Metrics:

 

AS

 

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I used to contribute over at ASR but the people there seem to me to be too devoted to a single point of view to listen to anything I had to say. No need to beat my head against the wall. As for not subjectively evaluating a DAC, fine, but don’t you buy a DAC to listen to it, or just collect them. That atty tood is why I left there. To each his own.

 

Anyone could shut up the entire objective bent of ASR if they would only sit down for a true blind session of say two DAC's that measure incredibly close but spend $$ incredibly far apart. Same thing for speaker, line, power cables that supposedly make a difference but the measurement data doesn't support the supposition.

 

That would remove any leg that Amir has to stand on.

[plissken]

Just now, sphinxsix said:

I'm somehow not surprised, Fiats are also more popular than Porsches..

 

This is the false equivalency that ASR threads often revolve around.  AS and ASR cost exactly the same unlike Fiats and Porches.

 

No if we made Fiats and Porches the same price you let me know which you would buy.

[plissken]

1 minute ago, sphinxsix said:

 Why to remove it.? Let's let everyone stand where and the way they like.

 

 

I think prior posts have moved us past this point already. Some posts are already calling his credibility into question. I have a sure fire way of making that actually happen.

[plissken]

Just now, sphinxsix said:

 

I meant popularity vs quality factor, didn't take prices into account. Read the whole post.

 

 

I'm quite capable of reading the post. As a matter of fact you said popularity not quality. Please don't move the goal posts. I asked a simple question: if Fiat and Porsches were the same cost which do you think more people would drive?

[plissken]

4 minutes ago, sphinxsix said:

 

I said popularity vs sh....yness (which is connected with quality or rather lack of it)

 

 

Here is your post in it's entirety in case you misremember some more:

Quote

 

I'm somehow not surprised, Fiats are also more popular than Porsches..

I don't know - maybe there is even a rule (that would probably work in case of my subjective ranking) - the more popular the site, the more probable that (subjectively - for me) sh...y it is. Definitely works in case of FB where I needed (due to some business plans) to register a couple of months ago..

 

 

[plissken]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

In true objective fashion, you've dropped what you believe is a truth bomb without any context, then made a subjective conclusion based on. 1/10th of the facts. Well done. 

 

Good, bad, or indifferent Amir has obviously struck a chord. The Alexa rankings are hard, objective, data. Going by that same data and the increasing trend line it represents only means there's an increasing audience for his content.

 

I don't see how I'm missing any context. Look at the dwell time in comparison to page view and then the bounce rate. It means that people are staying on pages longer. As it turns out humans (at least in the audio hobby) don't apparently have the attention span of a turnip.

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. There is no way anyone, including me the owner of this site, can gather truthful statistics like that on AS. Average time on site? Given that 45% of our users enable blocking of all tracking mechanisms, the fact that we removed all tracking code, and people using encrypted DNS in browsers like Firefox. it just isn't possible. 

 

That's an interesting rebuttal. Let's extend this a bit. My experience leads me to believe that the average technical acuity of and ASR member is higher than here. That's not a slam BTW, both site have certain segments they are serving.

 

With that out of the way I would say the DNT, encrypted DNS, Black Hole DNS, Layer 4 - 7 filtering is something that more ASR vs AS users would normally do. So in that respect ASR Alexa rankings could be under-reported.

[plissken]

I'm telling posters here that what ever it is he's doing it's working. I would personally take a page out of his play book:

 

 

[plissken]

6 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

but soon discovered there really isn't anything to measure that's of interest to music listeners.

 

It certainly wouldn't hurt to expand your audience draw.... I'd be all for that content here. It's partly why I thought you ordered an AP and started the Objectify sub-forum.

[plissken]

4 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Walmart has a lot of customers. That doesn't mean Target should emulate them just to get more people. 

Fair enough.

[plissken]

11 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

covering very inexpensive products like ASR. I just don't have an interest in that stuff.

 

This is an interesting introspection. I gotta ask why not? Or asked another way you only have interest in providing insight into really expensive gear?

[plissken]

10 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

I don’t disagree, but I would think that you should listen too, no? Amir doesn’t listen, just goes by the numbers, which may or may not tell the true story.

 

Again, if you'd only ask Amir, his primary objective (pun intended) is data. Not subjective prose. You can't swing a dead cat by the tail without hitting those sorts of reviews.

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I care a lot about things that just can’t be done inexpensively. Build quality, first class support, companies that cater to this niche, product / component sourcing, model longevity, etc...

 

What is your metric for this? If Alexa rankings can't be trusted then I think that same shoe fits here.

 

I now have a $460 SMSL SU-9 DAC.  My prior Emotiva DC-1 was going on 10 years old and still going strong. This would also not fit your criteria as far as price. Both worked right out of the box and zero problems.

 

[plissken]

15 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

He makes his recommendation solely using his numbers, not listening.

 

I personally don't have any issue if you like an R2R or multi-bit DAC vs DS. BUT when there is a clear difference in measurement data (linearity, jitter, mains suppression, noise floor etc) it is just data.

 

Amir has a preference for a 'clean martini'. If you like a dirty martini well he has you covered there too. Just don't argue that you have a high fidelity device. If you have a preference for Tube, R2R, Multi-bit distortion profiles knock your self out. Know what you purchased, why you purchased it, and how it affects the sound.

 

Knowledge is power.

[plissken]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

As an example of what I mean when I talk about things that just can't be done inexpensively, look at what dCS does. Very low volume, high build quality, great product support, models updated for at least ten years via software/firmware, all built and sourced in the UK, fit and finish is exquisite, helped created the DoP standard, thus offering it long before other companies even thought to copy it, same with asynchronous USB, employees paid living wages, etc...

 

What DCS does is done all over the place by other manufacturers all the time. For $14,000 to $40,000 I like to throw in a 10 year software / firmware guarantee also.

You ever see the Bourne Identity were he gets a ride for $10K and the driver likes to throw in a coffee and croissant too? 

 

I would say that RME, Matrix Audio, Benchmark all have engineers that don't arrive at work on a short yellow bus. Maybe their marketers do....

 

I'll put this out there: If a DCS measures the same I've no problem submitting it and another like measuring unit to a blind test. I'll take a Matrix Audio X Sabre Pro at $2K and if I need to in 10 years time spend another $2K for the unit with the updated software.

[plissken]

18 minutes ago, Don Hills said:

 

I was surprised to see that listed as a positive attribute. ☺️

 

I remember when every Jaguar came with a free oil spot.

[plissken]

18 minutes ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry plisskin the Yggy sounds fantastic. Not a high fidelity device my ass. This condescending know it all attitude is why I left ASR.

 

I never said it didn't to your ears. You like what you like. If you like the Yggy, and understand Amir's measurements then that should help you find other gear that exhibits that behavior that you'll enjoy.

 

Hell maybe my preference would be for the Yggy. I haven't heard one as of yet.  So I haven't made any statements about actual sound. Just what the data shows.

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Please stick to the facts. Objective data rather than anecdotes. 
 

please tell me which Benchmark product models have been available for purchase new for 10 years and received new features via firmware, not just bug fixes. 
 

Facts please. 

 

I just stated the facts: I can get anywhere from 7 to 20 Matrix Audio Sabre X Pro's for the cost of various DCS DAC's. I'll take my chances with the 'sub par' support, build quality, reliability, software updates.

 

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You get your tea from a local shop @plissken . Why? Walmart has it cheaper. 

 

The same teas that both carry walmart MAY have it cheaper. But often they don't since I purchase 150 grams loose leaf the local tea shop is generally priced better and they have 120+ variety lining the walls that Walmart doesn't.

[plissken]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Here’s the thing. You would never listen to it because you don’t like it’s measurements. That’s not living, in my book. 

 

No, I had Carver tube gear at one point and liked solid state better. That was one of my wake up moments. Also why I can't get back into vinyl.

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You’re moving the goalposts, then dismissing what I value and the items that cost real dollars. 
 

Im still waiting on facts rather than preferences. 

 

I answered your question:

 

"

If 10 year's of software updates is worth $12,000 to $38,000 premium to anyone, whom I to argue?  Knock yourself out.

"

[plissken]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Have you blind tested them? 

Some yes: Celestial Seasoning Chai Rooibos and their Peppermint suck compared to my local tea shop. Also the local shop has a mix call Bashford Bedtime Brew that is just killer.

 

I'll send you some to see what you think.

 

[plissken]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

You conveniently forgot all the other items I listed, that also make up the cost difference. 

 

No I haven't forgot. I just see them as red herrings after having a $499 10 year old DAC that is still working just fine. That includes channel balance, DC offset, and ac ripple

 

What good are software updates for a stable device? My point being is why spend $14,000 to $40,000 now when I could spend $2K every three years and be driving a brand new DAC with all the improvements?