DAC or DAC/preamp

[nikolaos1969]

@DuckTollerHi, we discussed months ago about the purchase of a streamer and a DAC for my audio system. Regarding the recently purchase of the lumin u1 mini the question if it is worthwhile to purchase a DAC/preamp or simple a DAC.  If you ask me the comparisons between rpi4-volumio and lumin u1 mini I would say definitely YES with the latter the music opens wide more flourishing more lively.

Thanks

Nikos

[nikolaos1969]

Great to discuss with you Duck, in the meantime thinking about DAC's I am posting a link regarding a breakthrough project worldwide first taking place at the observatory of Helmos mountain at Peloponnese perfecture in Greece. The next gen of telecommunications "fibre in the sky" the transfer of voice and data between earth stations and satelites via laser beams.

https://www.ekathimerini.com/culture/256473/helmos-chosen-for-scylight/

 

You are invited to visit Greece and the Greek Islands and hope someday sitting on a beach listening to music directlty from audio system.

regards

Nikolaos

[nikolaos1969]

4 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Nice project!!
And I am happy that Greece has been appointed to helm that breakthrough.
Sounds like in the future we will have holgographic music perfomances at the beach (inlcluding the necessary social distance! but without the nerving body controls. There will be a bigger logistic project to get the artist's fanbase to selected beaches, but ... )

I have visited some Greek islands in the past and have lovely memoirs from then.
My teenage son visited Corfu last year with his friend's family who are originating from there. One special week without pandemics. He had been as well to Athens with his mum while I was dog keeping (and profited listening to music all over the house and around the clock...)
When travelling returns to a different normal, Greek islands are definitely back on the menu ...
 

Well, I would love to meet you. I think covid19 will be a step forward to deploy the telecom infrastructure and communication technologies. Yes, CXA81 https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/eur/en/products/hi-fi/cx-series-2/cxa81

uses the DAC you mentioned. Around 1,000€ is an affordable amount. What I do not know is how the CXA81 perform without its own DAC. I have never read anything about this because I suggest many users rely on its own dac. Connecting lumin via usb to DAC and then via DAC XLR analogue output to CXA81 XLR analogue in. You have not mentioned MQA what is your opinion.

[nikolaos1969]

5 hours ago, mevdinc said:

I personally prefer going DAC direct to my active speakers, no additional preamp in between.
So, I have always opted for a DAC with a very good built-in analog volume control. So far, this choice has worked very well for me.

My choice of DACs also offer at least one analog input (this has been useful for home cinema setup).

My latest DAC Lindemann Musicbook DSD 20 also comes with a streamer, but I mostly use it with my Macmini connected via USB.
 

Hi, I was about to purchase Lindenmann bridge or network because its app is very intuitive but I was disappointed because no usb audio is available. My amp is designed to perform at its best sample rate PCM or DSD only with USB audio.

[nikolaos1969]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

I think it is a scam to earn money without any proven advantages compared to existing formats, but a backdoor to control consumers. It is a marketing jerk, based on mingled truth and lies, organised for control and earnings. I haven't heard a MQA file that sounded better than the original FLAC file, but my personal experience is quite limited.
I would stay away from it or ask myself the necessary questions before I would spend money on it:
- Why should I trust a format that doesn't work bitperfect?
- Why should I support a company that does not deliver any piece of objective evidence about the added benefit of their invention.
- How can I trust a company that claims the format "sounds as the artist intended" without ever asking the artists (but the label perhaps) and enable a mass conversion of Warner provided "master" tapes for Tidal use?
- How should I give my money to people govern a company like MQA and behave like mobsters: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSv0lcHlawk - hint: This is Chris, the owner of this forums having the MQA crew wrecking his presentation at RMAF 2018

I have suspections against companies that use strategies I have seen in politics for years to overcome objective proof & opinion holders which questions their proposed qualities, companies which pay for influencer to interrupt threats like "MQA is Vaporware" or rather trying to attack Archimago personally instead to show scientific results that his finding were untrue ?
I dislike DRM because it is the expression of everything the music industry hates about their consumers

No MQA for me - your mileage may vary - but you may want to reflect on your tendencies towards marketing influence (this are the guys who earn money with their PR)

I will agree with you as soon as MQA does not provide bitperfect sound can not be regarded as a standard

[nikolaos1969]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

In my opinion, you may prefer the option using the AES/EBU port of the Lumin to an AES/EBU input at the DAC of your choice for DoP or PCM up to 24/192 and USB only for (upsampled) formats of higher bandwith than that. However, you ears need to confirm ...! And you need to find a DAC with AES/EBU below 1k.
For the missing information you ask best where you find a lot of owners of the CX 81, Cambridge forums or owner groups at Facebook for example.

Using AES/EBU digital port sounds better than USB port ? Tell me your opinion about denafrips ARES II. If I find a used armature I I think I will go for it. A second option is RME ADI-2-DAC-FS DA Converter. I think OCTO DAC8 is too expensive regarding using rpi.

[nikolaos1969]

18 hours ago, DuckToller said:

Re. Pre-amp function with a DAC:
IMHO this is a feature supporting the shortening of the signal path towards a power amp, which in turn would not help a lot in conjunction of an intergrated amplifier without a passthrough to avoid the analog line stage of the amp. The CX81 works obviously the opposite way, you have a preamp out for using it as preamp only, circumventing the line stage does not seem part of the equation.

The reason discussing the DAC/preamp is that Lumin u1 incorporates LEEDH processing, https://www.luminmusic.com/support-leedh-processing.html, and that can be achieved via a pre-amp.

[nikolaos1969]

1 minute ago, mevdinc said:

I was very interested in LEEDH and thought that it would be implemented in more DACs and used by more software players. At one point Audirvana was going to use it as well but subsequently dropped it
Software volume control is getting better and better but it's still not 100% lossless.
So, I decided to opt for DACs that offer very good analog volume such as my Lindemann.

Very interesting, thanks

[nikolaos1969]

On 2/22/2021 at 5:24 AM, DuckToller said:

AES/EBU vs. USB - depends on your ears -

Okto - long delivery time & no used market. Available without Pi for less.

ARES II/Denafrips - search Forums here, good choice but maybe overspecced for your system

RME - you can't go wrong ...

Armature - Holo or Denafrips design?

 

Think, beside format specs, at that price point features like

Display, Remote, Connectivity,

Headphone out, analog stage & volume control, power supply and aesthetical preferences are important, too.

 

 

Which one of Armature DAC's

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-without-volume/armature-cronos-r2r-balanced-xlr-dac-24bit384khz-xmos-xu208-p-11831.html

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/dac-without-volume/armature-asterion-holo-spring-r2r-balanced-xlr-dac-24bit384khz-dsd512-p-12038.html

Both products are discontinued. Do you consider it a disadvantage for future upgrade or something else?

 

regards

Nikolaos

[nikolaos1969]

1 hour ago, DuckToller said:

Latest contribution about the Pontus II in the forums

 

I think RME is out of the list because USB port is not for audio

https://www.rme-audio.de/adi-2-dac.html

[nikolaos1969]

@DuckTollerhope you are good because in Greece we are having a severe lockdown. Just wondering what matters more, upgrading my amp with a new or user one maximum 2500€ (with a DAC ?) or buying a DAC ( denafrips). I do not know in this amount of money if the difference on sound will be marked 

[nikolaos1969]

14 hours ago, motoko_K said:

@nikolaos1969 Another DAC-pre to consider is the new iFi Neo iDSD ~ $700 - it's one of those swiss army knife products and has a headphone amp, too. 

 

Regarding separate DAC + preamp vs DAC-pre, I think it comes down to cost (separates being more expensive), how fussy your power amp is, and the specific volume-control implementation of the DAC-pre (a lot of the Sabre DACs use the chip's built-in volume control). I guess a lot of Lumin users are happy with the volume control in the Lumin App, so perhaps the need for a DAC-pre is less; then again, if the DAC-pre sounds good anyway, then you will have the option to compare and switch between both. Personally, I find it convenient and cost-effective to dispense with a separate preamp.

 

Now, although CXA81 is integrated I can not control the volume in the lumin app either have to purchase a DAC/preamp or DAC +preamp

[nikolaos1969]

11 hours ago, wklie said:

 

If you wish to control the volume in Lumin app, simply turn on the Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume functions in Lumin app for the U1 MINI you are using.  Note that DSD will be converted to PCM.

It is working perfectly.