Confused Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 A new video from GIK. I found the extent by which a large null was reduced with room treatment to be both interesting and perhaps a little surprising. That said, they have added a LOT of room treatment for this demonstration, far more that most would do for a domestic room. (Presumably). The "before and after" recordings are also interesting. Is it me, or does the "after" recording sound perhaps a little dead? Maybe you can go too far with these things? This is a short video, and well worth the time to watch I think. Jeff_N 1 Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Popular Post Confused Posted February 18, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 18, 2021 I have to be honest here. Doing something with room treatment has been on my "to do" list for far too long now. My fault entirely, I guess I just like fiddling with electronics and similar, and sorting out room treatments seems too much like hard work and hassle. This is why I liked the video so much. You can very easily hear the difference and improvements right the way through the entire frequency range. The obvious effect is the "deadening" of the sound, or removal of the room echo if you like. This I would expect, but what really struck me is some of the mid-range stuff, where to my ears the system in the treated room sounds like it has has a significant amount of distortion removed. In some threads we discuss distortion levels of 0.0018% versus 0.00026% or whatever (which is all good fun), but this is on another level I think. So in other words, this little video has probably done just enough to nudge me out of complacency and make the effort to do something. Last year I visited a hi-fi show. Yes, a hi-fi show in 2020! This was in February, just before the first UK lockdown. GIK had a display stand there, and this for me was the highlight of the show. Firstly, I had been browsing GIK's website, and I had happily picked out some of the styles and colours for products that I liked. Then, when I could actually see the products for on display in real life, I realised that some of the stuff that looked great in photographs on line did not look so good in the flesh, and vice versa. So I left with a completely different idea of what I might actually purchase. I also spent a lot of time with one of the GIK guys, he was explaining about how a potential customer can send photographs of their room, REW measurements (he was particulary keen on REW measurements), details of what they might happily do or not do (such a corners are fine, but I will never touch the ceiling etc. and they can then send you their recommendations. Apparently their recommendations start with the easy to do but big benefit stuff, then work progressively through to the hard to do and limited benefit stuff. So you can progressively add room treatments, and decide when to stop. This was just about one year ago now, and I have done nothing since. Time to start progressing this one I think. DuckToller and PYP 2 Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Confused Posted February 21, 2021 Author Share Posted February 21, 2021 On 2/18/2021 at 7:24 PM, MarkusBarkus said: @Confused I have added a lot of room management and it has helped the sound *a lot.* I designed and built my room with an ear to adding hifi, but it is an odd room and I have to share it with Sweetie for Netflixian evenings. Full disclosure: I have NOT measured my room "acoustically." I have added treatments slowly, listening as I went along. I know, and others have been right to point out: measuring it will provide insight into issues, which I'm sure are there. Actually, I plan to order that Umik2 mic and load REW software to test. When I started on the room, I did exhaustive reading and thinking. Based on some info, I should have just given up, as the room would never sound good. But it does! I have many treatments throughout the room. Some are pressure based, sealed boxes; some are velocity based "traps." Some are DIY and some commercial, including by GIK. I sent some room info to one of their guys, and it was OK, but not greatly helpful. I should also note: nothing is being trapped, so it's an awkward word, but what we seem to use. Those low freq. waves aren't stopping for (almost) nothing. I just wanted to mix up their reflections and absorption rates. As noted previously, moving the chair and/or speakers has great potential. For the real acoustic honchos here, feel free to yuk it up on my account, as I will post pics for your entertainment. The big take-away in my view is you can really add to the quality of your room sound with a few, or as many as you need, of these products. Sorry the pics are quick, cell camera items. Looking back to listening position. Many would not choose a diffusor here, and say it is too close. 6-10 feet is more typical, but this works (about 3'). Mega-trap below. About 165 lbs.! All three built from Acoustic Fields plans: Looking front. All room corners are trapped. I have GIK diffusors up front, and pressure membrane DIY traps. That front sub is on a DIY platform too: Side wall. GIK 3-D diffusors. Behind wooden panel there are two inches of rigid fiberglass panels the entire length (panel is fir-ed out and sealed. I built the ceiling cloud too. Room is "short" and this helps a lot: The naughty side of the room can create an imbalance. If I want to get kooky with listening, I can slide these additional pieces into place from their hiding spot. They look odd in place, but they serve to balance the sound a bit more, even without the mass of a wall. Additionally, I chose to do more of a near-field sound field. About 8' out. It lacks a bit of expanse in the soundstage, but I listen to mostly jazz and small set music, not big band and full-orchestral pieces. They sound fine too, but lack the great image presence in the room. I have some rags under the speakers and the stand on the floor, awaiting some new stuff. Snow storm delays. Honestly, the big take-away I would like to express is that room management makes a big difference, and that it is OK to experiment a bit. The plants you see are fake. I like the look, and they will scatter some high frequency "rays." Of course, you could hire a pro, but where's the fun in that? Happy listening... y Thanks for the pictures, if nothing else it reinforces my own issues with getting room treatment sorted out. I look at the pictures, I should be thinking about room treatments, and then I end up thinking "oh look, some VU meters". Yes, those strange little things that do nothing much at all for audio reproduction, why do I love them so? Anyway, I was interested in your comment that the advice from GIK was not that helpful. The GIK guy I spoke to at the show I mentioned was incredibly helpful and knowledgeable. As it happens, I recognised him from a hifi in London show maybe 3 or 4 years ago. At the show they has a seminar area, where they had someone doing some kind of talk or presentation each hour. I attended a talk about room treatments and it was the same GIK guy who did the presentation, and it was a very good presentation, this guy knew his topic.. I guess if you send a manufacturer a lot of information for advice, there is a degree of luck as to who gets to respond, and how much time they have to spend on your particular query. Which makes me think that when I get around to making the effort to compile REW measurements, room sketches, photographs etc. it might be a good idea to send it to maybe two or three companies. I could then compare and contrast the responses, combined with a bit of my own research. Looking at my own room, I will have some challenges. the location of one door is not ideal, plus one side wall at "first reflection point" is a wall, but on the other side it is a window. Yet there ae some "easy hits" I think. For example, the corners of the room behind the speakers are just empty corners, dead space with literally nothing in them. One step at a time, I'll get there eventually. Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Confused Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 Hear is a question for the room treatment experts. I have been investigating options for my own room. The corners behind my speakers are basically empty corners, so prime candidates for some kind of room treatment. I was thinking about the traditional style of corner bass traps, then I found these. Does anyone have any idea how these DAAD type devices might perform in comparison to traditional corner traps? http://www.acusticaapplicata.com/prodotti.php?lang=en http://www.acusticaapplicata.com/volcano.php?lang=en https://www.audioconsultants.co.uk/room-acoustics-treaments.html#Acustica-Applicata Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
Confused Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said: These products may be a bit more frequency-specific, so if you don't know specifically what's going on in your room, you may not choose the optimum sized product, according to them. But that would be true of any such product. I know the key issues with my room, the bass peaks a little over 50Hz, and nulls at maybe 110kHz. How that influences the choice between conventional bass trapping and tubes I am not sure. Although I do know that absorption at 50Hz is not easy. 3 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said: Are you a DIY fella at all? Indeed I am, but with the current problem of not much time, so not planning to self build anything in the short term. 3 hours ago, MarkusBarkus said: Being on your side of the ocean, there may be an advantage cost-wise, vs. other US based products. The UK distributer for the DaaD is actually not too far from where I live, which at least gives me the option to go and have a look. maybe I could borrow one or two to try at home. GIK manufacture in the UK also. Windows 11 PC, Roon, HQPlayer, Focus Fidelity convolutions, iFi Zen Stream, Paul Hynes SR4, Mutec REF10, Mutec MC3+USB, Devialet 1000Pro, KEF Blade. Plus Pro-Ject Signature 12 TT for playing my 'legacy' vinyl collection. Desktop system; RME ADI-2 DAC fs, Meze Empyrean headphones. Link to comment
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