fas42 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Well discovered! ... Telling for me was the Led Zep track - nicely handled, got the tonalities coming through very cleanly - though, Yet Again, I hear that ol', ol' syndrome of the SQ degrading after a certain time - the vocal in the last(?) track, with guitar, has a thick, choked quality to it ... this loss of clarity after a period of running time is so common - and often is not easily sorted ... Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post One and a half Posted February 16 Popular Post Share Posted February 16 5 hours ago, fas42 said: Well discovered! ... Telling for me was the Led Zep track - nicely handled, got the tonalities coming through very cleanly - though, Yet Again, I hear that ol', ol' syndrome of the SQ degrading after a certain time - the vocal in the last(?) track, with guitar, has a thick, choked quality to it ... this loss of clarity after a period of running time is so common - and often is not easily sorted ... And all that from a you tube audio, what a load of BS. Jeff_N and Teresa 2 AS Profile Equipment List Say NO to MQA Link to post Share on other sites
sandyk Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 41 minutes ago, One and a half said: And all that from a you tube audio, what a load of BS. Perhaps it was just starting to warm up after only 9 minutes and 9 seconds ? 😉😉 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to post Share on other sites
sphinxsix Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well. It helps men to rise above themselves. ― Albert Camus, The Plague. Link to post Share on other sites
RickyV Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 Isn’t the room a bit small for these kind of dipole speakers. Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers. Raal SR1a Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 11 hours ago, One and a half said: And all that from a you tube audio, what a load of BS. Which is telling that people don't know how to use captures of sound to evaluate what is not working correctly ... it's trivially easy to point to video clips of sound systems, on the net, which sound very impressive; and then to ones which sound downright awful - the next step is to apply your noggin to the situation, and work out what's bugging you in the latter one. Everyone is obsessed with hearing "How great!!" something is - sometimes, all that's needed is to hear that it doesn't sound great, and think about why that is so ... Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
RickyV Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 🤧 Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers with scan speak illuminator drivers. Raal SR1a Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to post Share on other sites
sphinxsix Posted February 16 Share Posted February 16 21 hours ago, Rexp said: Much more stable sounstaging than in case of La Scalas.. What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well. It helps men to rise above themselves. ― Albert Camus, The Plague. Link to post Share on other sites
Rexp Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, fas42 said: Which is telling that people don't know how to use captures of sound to evaluate what is not working correctly ... it's trivially easy to point to video clips of sound systems, on the net, which sound very impressive; and then to ones which sound downright awful - the next step is to apply your noggin to the situation, and work out what's bugging you in the latter one. Everyone is obsessed with hearing "How great!!" something is - sometimes, all that's needed is to hear that it doesn't sound great, and think about why that is so ... Yes, does it sound pleasant or unpleasant. That is the main thing I look for in a Youtube video. The majority of high end digital systems fall into the unpleasant catagory as per this channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC06sFy9NM9XPWQOmwBnj9Gw Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post sphinxsix Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 36 minutes ago, Rexp said: The majority of high end digital systems fall into the unpleasant catagory as per this channel: Or maybe the majority of low end microphones fall into the unpleasant category.? Which BTW shouldn't be surprising. Teresa, botrytis and Confused 3 What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well. It helps men to rise above themselves. ― Albert Camus, The Plague. Link to post Share on other sites
Rexp Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 15 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: Or maybe the majority of low end microphones fall into the unpleasant category.? Which BTW shouldn't be surprising. Poor capture is an issue, just not in this case. Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post sandyk Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 5 hours ago, fas42 said: it's trivially easy to point to video clips of sound systems, on the net Sorry Frank. but a Youtube clip with 128kb/s .aac audio is INCAPABLE of giving a good representation of ANY high quality system, for starters because it needs to be captured again using at least decent quality Stereo Microphones in an optimised listening room ,digitised again using a decent quality A/D converter,(and that rules out most USB recorders) and then is limited by the HF bandwidth from Youtube's only 128kb/s .aac audio which limits HF response to typically 16 kHz. e.g. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live) as mentioned in another thread . https://www.dropbox.com/s/w41d4t6u1gv1ypx/The Good%2C the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live)-0x0002.aac?dl=0 A conversion to 24/48 LPCM helps it a bit, although in theory it shouldn't be able to do this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq2dlunh9v11jlm/The Good%2C the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live).wav?dl=0 Teresa, PYP, sphinxsix and 2 others 5 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to post Share on other sites
botrytis Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I agree with @sandyk here. https://www.dropbox.com/s/57catq2met7azyt/Soundgraden.mp4?dl=0 Try this - a phone recording (Samsung S8) of 20th Anniversary Edition of Superunknown by Soundgarden (96/24 version of Black Hole Sun). Not the best but it gets the point across. Current: JRiver 26 on Win 10 PC (AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with 32 GB RAM) or Daphile on an AMD A10-5700 with 8 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Amplification - Audio Research SP-16 > Pioneer M-22 - Bow Technologies Wazoo Integrated (great amp - silly name) Speakers: Wharfedale Linton Heritage - KEF LS50 - Revel M126Be - others...... Cables: Tara Labs RCS Reference speaker cables and DiMarzio Interconnects Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 22 hours ago, sphinxsix said: Much more stable sounstaging than in case of La Scalas.. Which shows that people are focusing on the 'wrong' things, when they assess the competence of a rig - the La Scala setup is projecting an enormous sense of space, especially around the instruments, and voice; everything is completely individual, and is pin sharp on the particular stage it's on. Which is exactly how it was recorded; that's the true nature of the track - anything that "smallifys", clumps it together, and blurs the clarity of elements in the picture is getting it wrong ... if you want your own favourite staging of the recording, that's fine - but it's not what was created in the mix ... 🙂. Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 21 hours ago, Rexp said: Yes, does it sound pleasant or unpleasant. That is the main thing I look for in a Youtube video. The majority of high end digital systems fall into the unpleasant catagory as per this channel: https://youtube.com/channel/UC06sFy9NM9XPWQOmwBnj9Gw I'm curious now, as to what you're looking for ... for example, this is an accurate rendition of this sort of track, to my ears, using classic branded components, What do you feel is being got wrong, here? Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
sphinxsix Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, fas42 said: Which shows that people are focusing on the 'wrong' things, when they assess the competence of a rig - the La Scala setup is projecting an enormous sense of space, especially around the instruments, and voice; everything is completely individual, and is pin sharp on the particular stage it's on. Which is exactly how it was recorded; that's the true nature of the track - anything that "smallifys", clumps it together, and blurs the clarity of elements in the picture is getting it wrong ... if you want your own favourite staging of the recording, that's fine - but it's not what was created in the mix ... 🙂. I was joking, the camera and mic are moving during the recording hence the soundstage is moving too.. fas42 1 What’s true of all the evils in the world is true of plague as well. It helps men to rise above themselves. ― Albert Camus, The Plague. Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 8 minutes ago, sphinxsix said: I was joking, the camera and mic are moving during the recording hence the soundstage is moving too.. Sorry, was in the wrong head space, 😀. sphinxsix 1 Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 20 hours ago, sandyk said: Sorry Frank. but a Youtube clip with 128kb/s .aac audio is INCAPABLE of giving a good representation of ANY high quality system, for starters because it needs to be captured again using at least decent quality Stereo Microphones in an optimised listening room ,digitised again using a decent quality A/D converter,(and that rules out most USB recorders) and then is limited by the HF bandwidth from Youtube's only 128kb/s .aac audio which limits HF response to typically 16 kHz. e.g. The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live) as mentioned in another thread . https://www.dropbox.com/s/w41d4t6u1gv1ypx/The Good%2C the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live)-0x0002.aac?dl=0 A conversion to 24/48 LPCM helps it a bit, although in theory it shouldn't be able to do this. https://www.dropbox.com/s/oq2dlunh9v11jlm/The Good%2C the Bad and the Ugly - The Danish National Symphony Orchestra (Live).wav?dl=0 Alex, as I've said many, many times ... a YT clip can't convey all the good qualities - but its standard is good enough to easily pick a sub-par presentation ... the latter is what the exercise is about; noting what's wrong ... not what's right ... Rexp 1 Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
MarkusBarkus Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 10 minutes ago, fas42 said: latter is what the exercise is about; noting what's wrong ... not what's right ... ...jibba-jabba. The above is so misguided, it's stunning. Teresa 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post sandyk Posted February 17 Popular Post Share Posted February 17 24 minutes ago, fas42 said: Alex, as I've said many, many times ... a YT clip can't convey all the good qualities - but its standard is good enough to easily pick a sub-par presentation ... the latter is what the exercise is about; noting what's wrong . This thread is Great sounding system - $2K all in It is not possible to portray this from a room that was never designed for recording purposes, using typical microphones not designed for pro recording purposes, while using an inexpensive recording setup which then has a further degrading A/D conversion, then after posting it to YouTube at a reasonable resolution, having them convert it again to a pathetic 128kb/s resolution, as well as adding further compression. Add to that, that the Youtube player is far from as resolving as downloading it and playing it with a decent player S/W such as JRiver. It is rather obvious that your brain MUST be doing "on the fly" corrections to what you believe it should sound like, before YouTube downsampled it and further compressed it . IOW, you need a vivid imagination, especially if listening to it directly with a Laptop having tiny limited frequency range speakers . 😝 botrytis, Jeff_N and Teresa 2 1 How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file. PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020 Link to post Share on other sites
Rexp Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, fas42 said: I'm curious now, as to what you're looking for ... for example, this is an accurate rendition of this sort of track, to my ears, using classic branded components, What do you feel is being got wrong, here? Nothing wrong here, although the track is quite simple. The system does less well with this track: Link to post Share on other sites
Rexp Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 2 hours ago, fas42 said: Alex, as I've said many, many times ... a YT clip can't convey all the good qualities - but its standard is good enough to easily pick a sub-par presentation ... the latter is what the exercise is about; noting what's wrong ... not what's right ... Yes, does the clip sound like music or noise. YT makes this quite clear. Link to post Share on other sites
fas42 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Rexp said: Nothing wrong here, although the track is quite simple. The system does less well with this track: Fair enough. This is a recording which is a pretty severe test of any rig - including my own, 🙂. First, the system has to have the ability to extract all the detail; then that detail has to have nothing added - this genre of music requires absolutely pristine playback to properly deliver; because of the nature of the recording gear, and how it's been mixed - and here it's caught short. This is quite often the standard of replay of that audio friend up the road, when I turn up - and then we investigate what tweaks are necessary to lift the standard; to retrieve full 'sweetness', 😉. Frank http://artofaudioconjuring.blogspot.com/ Over and out. . Link to post Share on other sites
botrytis Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Remember this is they gen that puts STACKS papers on his speaker and believes it helps...... Current: JRiver 26 on Win 10 PC (AMD Ryzen 5 2600 with 32 GB RAM) or Daphile on an AMD A10-5700 with 8 GB RAM DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC Amplification - Audio Research SP-16 > Pioneer M-22 - Bow Technologies Wazoo Integrated (great amp - silly name) Speakers: Wharfedale Linton Heritage - KEF LS50 - Revel M126Be - others...... Cables: Tara Labs RCS Reference speaker cables and DiMarzio Interconnects Link to post Share on other sites
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