Superdad Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 44 minutes ago, TomJ said: As I see that my questions also opens in this forum cans of worms with never ending discussions please ignore this. It is always so tempting! asdf1000 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, TomJ said: Here is a comparison of S/PDIF vs. USB - USB is the clear winner: Show me where @PeterSt was arguing in favor of S/PDIF over USB. Peter has been designing serious DACs for at least a couple of decades—and has been pushing the envelope on USB input for his DAC. And he has some very sensitive measurement gear. In fact, his DAC is one of only two on the market (the other being the Auralic Vega G2) with USB galvanic isolation at the input—BEFORE the USB PHY/MAC processor. I think it is funny how some folks buy into the notion that the ex-Microsoft guy who bought an AP analyzer and floods the net with graphs somehow is somehow smarter than all the high-end engineers and chip guys who have been deep in this for decades. I could compile a list of renowned engineers (including Mike Moffat, Damian Martin, Ted Smith, John Curl, Michael Pflaumer, and Keith Johnson) who Amir has basically dubbed “hacks.” ambre, PeterSt, semente and 2 others 3 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, TomJ said: Maybe USB is not so popular... Huh? Did you know that this site was formerly called “Computer Audiophile.” Now we know that you either “just fell off the turnip truck” or are simply trolling... lmitche, ambre, sandyk and 1 other 1 1 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 38 minutes ago, TomJ said: I come from IT and I'm a bit tired of the discussions about jitter effects on sound in network transmission. There is a solution for this and that is the TCP / IP protocol, which compensates for possible errors on lower ISO layers. But if I'm wrong here, I ask for clarification. Okay, let's see how few words I can condense this into: Like everything else in this digital world, Ethernet is voltages into chips that run from clocks. And not even binary at that: 100Mbps is 3 voltage levels, Gigabit is 5 voltage levels. Just like everything else, the clocks are voltages with a rise time. And clock voltages are referenced to some 0-volt "ground" plane. Allow ground plane noise to enter an endpoint device (one that ultimately has a path to an audio rate master clock pin) and you end up with a bouncing "ground." Since the clock is not a perfect zero-rise-time square wave, movement of the 0-volt reference is laterally moving (in time) the clock voltage threshold of whatever chip is running off it. Jitter. Plus every chip--be it a PHY, MAC processor, FPGA, digital isolator, or flip-flop--generates its own noise (often via high-speed current draw spikes) and jitter. Separately, the causes of the above--ground-plane-noise/clock-threshold jitter--range from common-mode noise and leakage currents to upstream phase-noise (jitter) induced perturbations. And all that stuff adds up and becomes audible. Not going to go down the rabbit hole with anyone about why this above eludes standard FFT measurements at the analog output. That's a separate debate for which I will not take the bait. Funny thing is: DAC and other digital engineers (especially if you get into RF, telecommunications, and microwave engineering) deal with the ground-plane and clock issues in their designs as a matter-of-course. Really nothing new of controversial about any of it. What the armchair engineers, network guys--and even those designers who think nothing gets into their box--are missing is that immunity from electrical factors does not automatically come with every packet data interface, be it USB or Ethernet. semente, sandyk, Jeremy Anderson and 1 other 2 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, TomJ said: Not about jitter that leads to wrong data? Bingo! What goes on--and what our own highly unique EtherREGEN is all about--has zero to do with changing the bits. Never has. A $20 switch will transmit the same data. It is the secondary electrical factors at play--which are affecting various stages downstream. happybob and sandyk 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted February 20, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 20, 2021 20 minutes ago, TomJ said: The problem I have, that many people i discuss with how a network device can improve the sound dont understand that even with streaming services over the internet, there is no missing bit when the stream arrives in their streamer. They argue with UDP protocols and missing bits and this should be the reason why better "audiophile" switches improve the sound. And i am sick about these discussions. Then you are discussing with the wrong people on the wrong forums. Because neither I nor anybody reasonable I have seen in the 13 years I've been here have ever said that the bits--be they via USB or Ethernet--are changing. 20 minutes ago, TomJ said: If I am using a network isolator, then the noise will be lowered -right? Mighty much too generic terms there--"network isolator" and "noise." Like going to the doctor and saying: "If I am taking medicines then sicknesses will be better, right?" Or to the chef and stating "My food will be better with spices." Andyman, Exocer and sandyk 3 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Superdad Posted February 22, 2021 Share Posted February 22, 2021 1 hour ago, pkane2001 said: Oh, and also Star Trek Discovery. You'll know why if you've watched it -- fungi run the universe. Seems you are equating the Ferengi with fungi. They are VERY different species! Anonamemouse 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
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