BIOS help to get to ASDM7EC DSD256 with HQPe & i9-9900K?

[barrows]

Setup:

 

Gigabyte Aorus Z390 I Pro Mobo, 32 Gb Hyper X Predator RAM, i9-9900K, HDPlex 400 watt power supply, actively fan cooled.

 

XMP profile 1 selected, and "optimized defaults" in BIOS

 

running SonicTransporter (linux) OS + Roon + HQPe

 

Results: no problem for DSD 256 OS with ASDM7 or ASDM5EC and poly-sinc ext2, but ASDM7EC has a dropout every 10 seconds or so, with two cores running 95%-100%

 

As HQPe running ASDM7EC only really requires two cores to do a lot of work, I am doubting power availability is an issue, but perhaps there are clocking settings which could allow these two cores to run faster?  I am a total novice when it comes to BIOS, and am a bit nervous about going outside of "normal" parameters.  I also have seen that others with similar set ups appear to have no problems running HQPe+Roon at ASDM7EC to DSD256.  I have heard some suggest that sometimes mini itx mobos are sometimes limited by standard BIOS settings?

No network issues here, this is definitely a server limitation. 

[barrows]

4 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

I have this on the cheapest ASRock motherboard (Z390 Phantom Gaming 4).

 

Have the biggest Noctua fan.

 

Didn't touch the BIOS (apart from updating to latest version).

 

Stock Ubuntu Focal Desktop  , no fancy optimisations. Runs Roon Server on there too (as well as desktop apps).

 

ASDM7EC works fine all the time.

 

Never had an issue, even going through 2 x Netgear GS108's to reach the NAA.

 

650W Seatronics PSU but I doubt that's a factor.

Yeah, exactly why my issues are curious.  It is definitely not a lack of power, I have a wattmeter at the power supply input and the server is not even drawing 100 watts from the wall when attempting to run the ASDM7EC-DSD256.  No network issues here, the Network does not care about which modulator one uses, and here DSD 512 plays happily without issues on compatible hardware.

[barrows]

@bobflood, Yeah, I do not think the Aorus has a simple "performance mode" in BIOS, but I'll look again.  Plenty of complex settings for overclocking of course, and power, and such, all are set to "auto" as defaults.  There's also the advanced setting for the Turbo mode, I could have a look in there and see what the options are, perhaps "enhanced turbo"?  Although some folks say this can create a voltage problem to the processor.  I have no way to see processor temps during use, the only thing I can monitor in the SonicOrbiter OS is the CPU core usage.  It seems to run fairly cool when attempting to ASDM7EC DSD 256, with the fan not working very hard, so I feel I have plenty of cooling (Noctua radiator/fan setup).

[barrows]

@toddrhodes,  There is no multicore setting in HQPe which I am aware of.  Looked everywhere as those with HQP Desktop always mention that should be grayed.

SO is a very low profile linux OS, and I asked Andrew if it could be doing anything to throttle the processor and he says no.  It is hard to imagine SO being a problem, as it is not resource hungry at all.  I know of no way to monitor things during playback, I asked Andrew about that as well, and he had no answer, but I would assume there must be some way linux gurus?

[barrows]

42 minutes ago, bobflood said:

I looked up the Enhanced Turbo Mode and that is probably what you need. It just allows the 9900K to operate to its max Intel allowed capabilities. It isn't really overclocking in the sense of going past the manufacturer max allowed. It is similar to what ASUS calls Performance Mode.

I will look at the settings actually available under the turbo mode.  Right now that is set at "auto" which means the MoBo BIOS decide what to allow.  I can go in and change it.  I think the one thing I would want to avoid is having it turbo boost all cores unnecessarily, but we shall see what settings are there.  It may be that the board is running this conservatively, 

[barrows]

OK, tried a couple of things:

 

Set Intel Turbo Boost to "enabled" (default is "auto"), this made no difference

 

Tried setting Multicore performance to "enhanced" (default is "Auto"), but this popped the processor voltage up to 1.4 V, which made me a bit nervous, so I set back to "Auto"

 

Given that Jussi suggests that with this hardware I should easily be achieving EC7 to DSD 256 with "optimum defaults" and without any need for over clocking, I am beginning to think the problem is with the implementation and/or settings of HQPe with the Sonic Orbiter OS?  @agillis, do you have any ideas?

 

Running fine with ASDM5EC DSD 256, with two cores around 90%, but fully stable for all incoming rates.  Just cannot achieve ASDM7EC DSD 256.

 

I know everyone will suggest trying another OS, but I do not have a lot of time for this right now, and would need to do a lot of figuring out to understand how to run another OS.

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, bobflood said:

Did it work with the Enhanced Multicore setting? If so use it. This a K series chip and you have active cooling so you are probably being more conservative than need be. You could also just load standard Win 10/64 Home and worry about tracking the issue down when you have time.

i did not try it as the high voltage bothered me.  I know Intel specs up to even 1.5 volts being OK, but I have seen many folks saying that is going to fry the chip.  I can try it though, I am not to worried about a short term use at this voltage.

I would like to hear form Andrew RE the multicore setting in HQPe on SO OS...

[barrows]

@Miska,  I contacted Andrew (SGC) and asked him about his implementation of HQPe, and he said he loads it with the all the default settings intact and does not change anything.  I am thinking specifically about the multicore setup, as many mention this for HQP desktop being important.  Can you confirm that the default settings for HQPe should be fine?  (Not the configuration settings, there is no multicore set up settings in configuration).

[barrows]

4 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

There are just various builds of HQPlayer Embedded...

 

Default is "auto". Since HQPlayer Embedded is designed for hardware manufacturers, hardware related settings are primarily in the config file, but not exposed through the web interface to end users. Because those settings are supposed to be set by the hardware manufacturer who knows the hardware they are shipping HQPlayer with.

 

I have 4.21.1 installed in this server.

[barrows]

OK, so, I updated BIOS to latest version, which has improvements/updates to the Vcore levels.  Set XMP 1, set multicore in BIOS to "enhanced" which is basically a 5 GHz overclock.  Yes, the fan runs a little harder and the server consumes a bit more power (I have a wattmeter on the input still below 100 W), but still dropouts with EC7-DSD 256.  The only conclusion I can make is that there is some limitation with how HQPe is implemented with SO OS, as there is no way this should not work I can think of with these settings.

I do not have anymore time to mess with this now, and do not have the experience necessary to install, configure, and run other OSs.  Ultimately it looks like that is what I am going to have to do, with some help from someone experienced with linux and HQPe setups.

ASDM5EC sounds very good and plays perfectly reliably, but I have heard 7, and it is even better here...

[barrows]

23 minutes ago, bobflood said:

You are right in that it should play just fine with those settings. This does not reflect well on SO OS or on Andrew's ability to configure it for your hardware.

In Andrew's defense I must point out that this build was a special, custom project for me, done as a favor, and should not reflect on the products which offers to his normal customers, which are all optimized for the hardware he provides, and which work perfectly as advertised.  He does not normally use the i9-9900K processors.

[barrows]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Why not boot HQPlayer OS from USB memory stick, as it doesn't require installation and is ready in 10 minutes?

 

Jussi, I took a few minutes at Signalyst's website and could not figure this out, or even find where this would (HQP OS) be available.  Please understand, I am mostly computer illiterate when it comes to loading OSs, etc.  I am also running headless, and am not sure how I would control this, or integrate with Roon, etc.  

[barrows]

14 minutes ago, Miska said:

For troubleshooting, first thing to do is to reduce number of variables in the picture. That's why I'm proposing to try one easily bootable entire software bundle that doesn't require touching current OS or software installation, which is also something I have. Second thing is to simplify the path, by connecting DAC directly to the HQPlayer machine without a NAA - since this removes both network and one extra device.

 

Once the most simplified standard setup is working, one can start adding back the other things one by one and see at which point things begin to fail.

 

I fully understand and agree with the methodology you propose, excepting that the network does not need to be eliminated as a possible problem: I can easily send DSD 512 over the Network without issues, and I am sure it makes no difference to the Network which modulator I am running.  Of course with ASDM7EC I am only attempting to achieve DSD 256 anyway, so the Network capability is not at issue.

My only reticence here is that I have a lot of difficulty trying to run another OS, set up hassles, etc, due to my lack of knowledge of such-I get that for many here this easy easy stuff, but not so for me.  For example, even if I get the image loaded to a USB stick, I am in doubt as to how to get the server to boot from it, and boot up Roon which is on the M2 drive (the normal boot drive where HQPe, Roon, and SO reside).  What I really would like to know is how to set the multicore setting in HQPe from the default (you mentioned it is typically "auto") to setting 1 in my HQPe residing on the M2 drive.  Although I will attempt to trouble shoot with booting form the USB stick OS.

And of course, to all, thank you for your help.  

[barrows]

1 minute ago, barrows said:

double post... oops!

 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, bobflood said:

Barrows,

 

I am not saying his other stuff isn't good because it is good (I own several SO pieces myself). What I am saying, and keep in mind that this is a public forum, is that I and probably a lot of others following this thread will conclude that on this project he let you down. At the minimum he should have updated your BIOS, configured your BIOS for a high demand app (which HQP at 7EC/256 is) and then checked and configured the HQP Embedded multi-core configuration file for the i9 9900K and then lastly tested it and made any further necessary changes. It is apparent that he assembled the pieces, loaded his stock firmware and sent it out.

 

It has been painful to see you go through this ordeal after spending a lot of time and money knowing that it could have and should have been avoided. It should have worked for you out of the box.

 

At least you know it can work and you have some options.

 

Again, good luck and we all hope you get it working soon. 7EC/256 is amazing and with your setup you should be able to get almost all the filters to work.

 

Bob

 

 

While I would have appreciated it if Andrew had gone to the above efforts, he was reluctant to take on this project in the first place, and he reluctantly did so as a personal favor to me (we work together), at a very reduced price as well.  Considering these things, I would hate to see his reputation hurt as result of my travails.  I do not blame him at all considering these things.  For example, if I had approached someone else for this, I would have actually paid twice as much, so I really cannot fault Andrew here, he helped me out with a project which we both thought would be a bit simpler that it turned out be.

[barrows]

OK, I have a USB stick and used Balena to etch the bootable image.  Is getting the server to boot from this as simple as putting at the top of the drive list in the boot order in BIOS?

[barrows]

7 hours ago, firedog said:

Not sure how relevant this is, as I'm using HQP Desktop on a Windows 10 PC with a  i7-10700K; but it has very similar performance to your i9-9900K.

 

It does DSD256 poly-sinc - ext2 ASDM7EC with no issue-even also running DRC convolution and other DSP equalization at the same time.

Total processor load is about 12%.

 

There is one scenario that does cause stuttering, and it is if I activate-check the HQP setting for "multicore DSP". Sounds counterintuitive, but that's what happens. Jussi wrote me that thatparticular setting is mainly for the non-Intel processors, and should be off for Intel (I hope I got that right).

 

Is there some similar setting active in your setup?

Thanks for the tip, but HQPe has no such setting in the Configuration page.

[barrows]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

The check box has three states that are also shown when you hover mouse over it.

• Unchecked - all parallelizations disabled
• Checked - all parallelizations enabled
• Grayed - automatically detect which parallelizations to use

In most cases it should be set to grayed to let HQPlayer auto-configure itself.

 

 

There is, and it defaults to auto-configuration. But it is not visible in the user interface, because it is supposed to be set by the hardware manufacturer based on their knowledge and testing of the hardware. Since HQPlayer Embedded is primarily for a "device firmware" kind of use.

 

As the default is "auto" and Andrew says he does not change any defaults on setting up HQPe, I would assume it is at "auto" in my server.

[barrows]

OK, probably need a little help here.  I have the USB drive with HQP OS on it as boot sequence 1.  This notes that it is UEFI, partition 1.  Is that correct?

 

Also, I see my copy of Fedora which is on the M2 drive-this is the normal boot drive 1 for SO OS, what do I do with this in the boot sequence?  Or will the server just ignore it after booting to the USB stick HQP OS.  I do not want to brick anything here...

[barrows]

6 minutes ago, bobflood said:

Jussi, Any way that you could remote in to @barrows and fix this? I am wondering if the problem might also be the distro or kernel that SGC has used to build SO. The reason I wonder is that over time some others here have reported problems trying to do 7EC/256 on the i9 machine that SGC sells commercially. Usually those reports were when trying to run Roon concurrently but maybe it is related to this problem. It could also be that the i9 SGC uses on those machines is not a high enough spec but SGC is opaque on which i9 variant they use. This might be a problem worth looking into as something is not right here. The way he has the BIOS currently set that machine should not be having any problem at all and he should be able to also do most all filters at 7EC/256.

 

Anyway, just a thought for you to consider.

SGC commercial builds are i9-9900 only, not "K", so I do not think users should expect to be able to achieve ADSM7EC-DSD 256 with them.  They will do ADSM7 to did 256 and 512 with no issues with poly-sinc ext2.  These are smaller boxes with passive cooling only.

[barrows]

8 minutes ago, ted_b said:

You won't brick anything.  Me, personally, I don't change boot order/priority in bios, I simply go to its submenu called boot menu (or whatever it is called) and click on the USB drive...it will boot to that drive as soon as you click it.

Thank you Ted.  I am already in the BIOS for boot sequence, so no issues there, it seems easy enough to change it here.  I was just worried how the machine might treat my Fedora partition on the M2 drive.  So as long as the UEFI USB stick is boot sequence 1 it will be boot to that OS and be OK then, for sure? Boot drive sequence now reads:

1.  UEFI USB partitio 1

2. Fedora Intel SSD

3. P2, which is my storage HDD SATA

4. Intel SSD (M2 drive)

5. USB DISK pMAP 2.0

 

OK, to boot up like this?

 

 

[barrows]

OK, it boots into HQPe now, but Roon Core has vanished.  So I am bricked here.

[barrows]

Just now, bobflood said:

Can you run Roon on another machine for the test?

No, and that would take hours and hours to configure, scan a new library, etc.  

[barrows]

Thanks guys, but this is problematic.  I do not use Tidal or Quobuz.  Plus running Roon on another machine pretty much invalidates the test, as the goal is to run everytuhgin on one machine, which should the hardware should be totally capable of anyway.

I have Roon on my laptop and can test with a small group of files, but am not sure what this will tell me anyway.

[barrows]

Works fine bypassing SO by running HQP OS booting from a USB stick, ASDM7EC DSD 256, so clearly the problem is with how HQPe is implemented with SO, @agillis?  Serving files from Roon to HQPe from my laptop.

This is without any trick BIOS settings, just XMP 1 and WiFi disabled, all other settings at defaults.

 

The unfortunate news is that this gives me no simple path forward which I am capable of achieving.  I assume this means I need to load a different OS (Audio Linux, etc) and HQPe, and Roon, and configure everything myself.  Windows is not an option for me.

 

Oops, playback just paused, i was able to re-start, perhaps this because I am now in trial mode.