Roon 1.8 Discussion

[christos]

As I mentioned, I removed the AIFF album, converted files in Apple Lossless and reimported album to the iTunes lib.

Started the process al over again.

Roon passed that point to crash in the next AIFF album encountered.

Big effort and time consuming to convert ~800 tracks to apple lossless.

I passed log files to Roon Support (to their specification) and hope to receive answers.

Addicted to Roon convenience!!!

I still hear music through Stylus or  Audirvana.

I plan to restore my last backup and wait for an update to, probably, solve issues.

 

Regards and thank you for your time!

[esmit]

Deleted

[Mike48]

I'm trying Roon again after rejecting it five years ago. It sure has improved since and I can see many merits.

 

BUT still it's not terribly good for classical music. The main issue is that one can't select from one's library in meaningful ways, according to featured instrument(s) and/or type of classical music. For example:

• One can't easily find all choral music in the library, or masses, or operas.
• One can't find all lieder in the library.
• One can't find all string quartets, or oboe concertos, or classical guitar discs, in the library.
• One can't find all music featuring the harp in the library.

I now remember why I gave up on Roon five years ago.

 

But I am still new to 1.8. Are these things really possible, and I'm missing it?

[firedog]

4 hours ago, Mike48 said:

I'm trying Roon again after rejecting it five years ago. It sure has improved since and I can see many merits.

 

BUT still it's not terribly good for classical music. The main issue is that one can't select from one's library in meaningful ways, according to featured instrument(s) and/or type of classical music. For example:

• One can't easily find all choral music in the library, or masses, or operas.
• One can't find all lieder in the library.
• One can't find all string quartets, or oboe concertos, or classical guitar discs, in the library.
• One can't find all music featuring the harp in the library.

I now remember why I gave up on Roon five years ago.

 

But I am still new to 1.8. Are these things really possible, and I'm missing it?

The focus feature and the filter feature should get you a good part of what you want. It helps if your files are tagged. Try also going in thru Composer.

[Mike48]

8 hours ago, firedog said:

The focus feature and the filter feature should get you a good part of what you want. It helps if your files are tagged. Try also going in thru Composer.

Yes, I've tried them, and they don't help much with the sort of thing I asked about. Focus has some good and some odd criteria, but neither the featured instrument nor the musical form (symphony, string quartet, cantata, ...).

 

My own files are indeed well tagged.

[katools]

New here, but long time Roon lifetime licensee.  I find myself increasingly disinterested in Roon because it's buggy and lacking in some basic features.  Added to that, based on its history the developers/owners have no interest in addressing feature requests, often dismissing them and dismissing bugs as a problem on the user's side.

 

Things that have been missing forever:

• user ratings for tracks
• decent playlist management & generation
• track based genres
• useable user ratings for albums differentiated from editorial ratings
• ability to add artist biographies and album reviews where there are none
• ability to annotate an album or track or both
• per user library, interface & settings based on profiles
• party mode where users cannot change settings, override queue or delete your music
• proper library management workflows to deal with missing or incorrect content and unidentified files
• undocumented/incomplete tag support
• native input to enable playback of any audio stream through server / endpoint interface
• proper handling of box sets
• inability to browse classical music by period or instrumentation
• full boolean logic to filter content
• support for wavpack and DSD .ISO

Bugs:

• persistent memory leak -- denied
•  random lags in browsing the library, particularly entering an album view -- often a restart sorts this
• random lags in starting playback
• unidentified album tracks shown out of order when identifying albums
• returning to top of lists when browsing
• persistent misallocation of albums to artist namesake even when existing albums have been corrected and incorrect namesake had no associated content
• Roon sometimes applies new settings when adding music, exactly like it does if you change library import settings
•  

Annoyances:

• inability to customise content by switching order in which elements of the UI are presented or to turn off content you've no interest in
• Valence everywhere you look.  It's no longer about browsing your music in a magazine, it's like browsing an ad-sponsored website or spam littered inbox.
• poorly formatted artist images 
• many, many artists without images and no attempt by Roon to do better
• No viable workflow to deal with unidentified albums
• user experience impacted by Roon's cloud whether local or streamed content.

Technically Roon is a great product under the hood, but how it all comes together through the UI has become a bothersome mess I prefer to limit my exposure to, so rather than explore music I love, Roon has been relegated to a DJ I use to play background music when I'm doing other things.

 

In hindsight, if I were not a lifetime member I'd have abandoned it completely by now.

[bobbmd]

Never concerned myself with all BUGS you mention I just like having TIDAL Qobuz and my own library and hundreds of my playlists all in one place JUST like Audirvana sometimes better sometimes worse. And I am a lifetime member also whatever that means at my age

[Account Closed]

8 hours ago, katools said:

New here, but long time Roon lifetime licensee.  I find myself increasingly disinterested in Roon because it's buggy and lacking in some basic features.  Added to that, based on its history the developers/owners have no interest in addressing feature requests, often dismissing them and dismissing bugs as a problem on the user's side.

 

Things that have been missing forever:

• user ratings for tracks
• decent playlist management & generation
• track based genres
• useable user ratings for albums differentiated from editorial ratings
• ability to add artist biographies and album reviews where there are none
• ability to annotate an album or track or both
• per user library, interface & settings based on profiles
• party mode where users cannot change settings, override queue or delete your music
• proper library management workflows to deal with missing or incorrect content and unidentified files
• undocumented/incomplete tag support
• native input to enable playback of any audio stream through server / endpoint interface
• proper handling of box sets
• inability to browse classical music by period or instrumentation
• full boolean logic to filter content
• support for wavpack and DSD .ISO

Bugs:

• persistent memory leak -- denied
•  random lags in browsing the library, particularly entering an album view -- often a restart sorts this
• random lags in starting playback
• unidentified album tracks shown out of order when identifying albums
• returning to top of lists when browsing
• persistent misallocation of albums to artist namesake even when existing albums have been corrected and incorrect namesake had no associated content
• Roon sometimes applies new settings when adding music, exactly like it does if you change library import settings
•  

Annoyances:

• inability to customise content by switching order in which elements of the UI are presented or to turn off content you've no interest in
• Valence everywhere you look.  It's no longer about browsing your music in a magazine, it's like browsing an ad-sponsored website or spam littered inbox.
• poorly formatted artist images 
• many, many artists without images and no attempt by Roon to do better
• No viable workflow to deal with unidentified albums
• user experience impacted by Roon's cloud whether local or streamed content.

Technically Roon is a great product under the hood, but how it all comes together through the UI has become a bothersome mess I prefer to limit my exposure to, so rather than explore music I love, Roon has been relegated to a DJ I use to play background music when I'm doing other things.

 

In hindsight, if I were not a lifetime member I'd have abandoned it completely by now.

Nothing is perfect.

[katools]

12 hours ago, bobflood said:

Nothing is perfect.

and Roon isn't even close, just the best among an otherwise mediocre pool.

[Mike48]

5 hours ago, katools said:

and Roon isn't even close, just the best among an otherwise mediocre pool.

Having set up a home-network streaming system close to 10 years ago, I've tried out a lot of software. IMO, there's no one "best", though some programs are best at certain things. Everyone's criteria are different; even mine are different on different nights.

 

Roon adds a lot of fun to my music listening, which is why I keep paying for it. When I'm searching for a specific sort of work and want to know what's in my library, I get the most precise results with my OpenHome setup (MinimServer and BubbleUPnP), not Roon. But if I want to wander through music for an evening, learning more -- not just musically -- about artists and releases relatively new to me, Roon is the tool for the job. (YouTube can be pretty good, too, though the fidelity isn't always great, and the constant ads are repellant.)

 

So, I like having a variety of ways to explore recorded music.

[katools]

On 5/4/2021 at 10:35 AM, Mike48 said:

Roon adds a lot of fun to my music listening, which is why I keep paying for it. When I'm searching for a specific sort of work and want to know what's in my library, I get the most precise results with my OpenHome setup (MinimServer and BubbleUPnP), not Roon.

If they spent more time fixing issues rather than policing their forum trying to silence criticism it might add some fun.  Instead it adds frustration.

[firedog]

44 minutes ago, katools said:

If they spent more time fixing issues rather than policing their forum trying to silence criticism it might add some fun.  Instead it adds frustration.

They've listened to lots of criticism and fixed multiple issues since the release of 1.8. There have already been 3 releases of fixes - many a direct result of user comments. They've allowed a thread on the forum that's about how much 1.8 sucks. I don't see that as silencing criticism.

 

If they haven't fixed your  specific issue or agreed with your specific criticism, that means nothing  in the general picture. 

 

The Roon people do have a specific vision for the SW, so they aren't going to accept every criticism, as some things some users want just aren't what they want to do. 

[charlesphoto]

Yeah, but there's some real basics they need to deal with, that have been issues for years, such as return to place when scrolling. I thought 1.8 a bit of a mess, where it felt like instead of approaching the software as a uniform piece that easily flows together, developers just tacked on their pet builds here and there. I'm used to it now, but imo there is huge room for improvement, but that would probably involve starting with an entirely new base/format. 

[Jsmith]

I am slowly getting back into the audio game after many years away.  One of my requirements was simplicity.  I am sure that I am giving up sound quality for this, but where I am at, I will take that tradeoff.  I was hesitant about setting up system based on Roon due to the ongoing costs, but so far, I am happy with it.  I like having all of my sources (local & streaming) in one spot and the Roon app seems to be doing a good job also controlling my equipment.  I am still in my trial period but so far I like it.  

[firedog]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

Yeah, but there's some real basics they need to deal with, that have been issues for years, such as return to place when scrolling. I thought 1.8 a bit of a mess, where it felt like instead of approaching the software as a uniform piece that easily flows together, developers just tacked on their pet builds here and there. I'm used to it now, but imo there is huge room for improvement, but that would probably involve starting with an entirely new base/format. 

Don't disagree. There's a few things I don't understand why they never fix.

But again, just b/c I want something doesn't mean it HAS to be that way.

Gotta step back and ask if there's anything else that comes close to giving me what I want - and the answer is no. Even if there are specific features in other SW that I wish Roon had. 

[charlesphoto]

30 minutes ago, firedog said:

Don't disagree. There's a few things I don't understand why they never fix.

But again, just b/c I want something doesn't mean it HAS to be that way.

Gotta step back and ask if there's anything else that comes close to giving me what I want - and the answer is no. Even if there are specific features in other SW that I wish Roon had. 

 

I think there's wants and then there's needs. Scrolling is a basic function - a need. The fact that it doesn't return to place renders some of the Roon's own wants - like their fancy new releases for you page - almost unusable. Yet they've used lots of time and resources on DSP, which imo is more of a want then a true need (I don't use it, have tried, and found it always makes my sound quality worse but that might be my gear as well). 

 

But yeah, same thoughts myself as far as nothing else does what it does for me (I'm a lifer, when it was $499). I just hope they make sure the basics are done better. 

[firedog]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

 

I think there's wants and then there's needs. Scrolling is a basic function - a need. The fact that it doesn't return to place renders some of the Roon's own wants - like their fancy new releases for you page - almost unusable. Yet they've used lots of time and resources on DSP, which imo is more of a want then a true need (I don't use it, have tried, and found it always makes my sound quality worse but that might be my gear as well). 

 

But yeah, same thoughts myself as far as nothing else does what it does for me (I'm a lifer, when it was $499). I just hope they make sure the basics are done better. 

Again, don't disagree. But's it's a mistake for any of us to assume our likes are what most people want. For example, I constantly use the DSP-literally never play anything without it.

[katools]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

They've allowed a thread on the forum that's about how much 1.8 sucks. I don't see that as silencing criticism.

You have clearly not seen their moderation thread where the coo is spending time judging customers and told one he'd rather they left. Lots of time and energy to waste on inane issues rather than addressing issues in the software - and a few minutes of browsing makes it clear these issues are not about wants and needs, but rather about problems that are left unresolved.  If they spent more time on the product and less time trying to police their customers there may well be fewer issues.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, katools said:

You have clearly not seen their moderation thread where the coo is spending time judging customers and told one he'd rather they left. Lots of time and energy to waste on inane issues rather than addressing issues in the software - and a few minutes of browsing makes it clear these issues are not about wants and needs, but rather about problems that are left unresolved.  If they spent more time on the product and less time trying to police their customers there may well be fewer issues.

 

+1 for the beauty of independent forums like this :~)

[katools]

15 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

+1 for the beauty of independent forums like this :~)

 

Yes. A few months back he's mouthing off labelling customers that don't stream "dinosaurs" then just recently he goes on to call someone a bigot because they made an off-color post in what was simply a misguided attempt at some light hearted humor. Pot, kettle, black, except he meant no humor when characterising his customers dinosaurs. They're technically gifted, but they're incredibly arrogant.  Believing you're the smartest chap in the room is rarely a recipe for sustained success.

[Account Closed]

My guess is that 90+% of Roon users are happy warts and all. There are other options for the rest.

[feelingears]

I'm a dinosaur; I want the "old" world where things like customer service matter, especially with software (which is why I work in software as "customer success"). Reading the above makes me glad I don't value what Roon has on offer because if I did...(sigh)...just don't want to go there.

 

Software is a relationship and it sucks when you're in a sh*tty relationship. Glad I don't date/marry (pay for) Roon. Thanks for sharing the inside scoop on their customer attitudes.

[bobbmd]

@The Computer Audiophile: Chris is @katoolstalking about YOU in above post(can't be)?? If not who is he talking about?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, bobbmd said:

@The Computer Audiophile: Chris is @katoolstalking about YOU in above post(can't be)?? If not who is he talking about?

 

Nope not me. 

[bobbmd]

@katoolswho are you referring to what post said that stuff you are referring to