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Roon 1.8 Discussion


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Still no way to see a record label’s content available on Qobuz or Tidal, like we can through native streaming apps. I want to browse ECM releases, but have to use the Qobuz app to do it. 
 

Also, I wish record labels were consolidated in Roon. Especially those with only case sensitivity differences. Example, ecm, Ecm, and ECM. 

 

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Founder of Audiophile Style

Announcing The Audiophile Style Podcast

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4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I can see it now. A Roon “app” store to purchase custom themes and extensions. 

 

They would have to somehow harden it against all the brilliant "hackers" that have brought us this far.

No electron left behind...

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2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still no way to see a record label’s content available on Qobuz or Tidal, like we can through native streaming apps. I want to browse ECM releases, but have to use the Qobuz app to do it. 
 

Also, I wish record labels were consolidated in Roon. Especially those with only case sensitivity differences. Example, ecm, Ecm, and ECM. 

 

EE3BDD7D-4B85-4CF8-BA79-D12C4ED278CC.png

That issue needs to be solved. Have you posted it at the Roon forum?

 

One positive note: it used to drive me crazy that classical music with multiple titles (live Stravinsky's compositions, that often have both French and English titles)  were seen as separate, and it was very difficult to get all versions to come up in a search: this seems to have been solved in large part - at least as far as I can see so far.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Another nice feature I didn’t know about. You can extremely quickly scroll your albums by artist name  first letter. 

The function works in other views as well. 

 

B96849E5-6961-4EAC-9DEB-1B9F65D0926D.jpeg

 

Yes, the new filter function works extremely well. A definite plus.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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9 hours ago, Foggie said:

Not sure I quite follow this, are the roon devs suppose to ask if you like the font over here or over there, is it the right size, what color etc..?  How is re-coding, re-developing an application that's pretty complex, a take it or leave it scenario?  Genuine question.

 

I'm reading all the comments here and at roons site and thinking, there is no way the devs could possibly implement the million different opinions, comments, use cases and the like.  They have to fit in "x" amount of time to develop, test and release it.  That pretty much applies to any app I would guess. 

 

It's take it or leave it because Roon is software as a service. I paid for it, but I don't own the software and can only use it on their terms. Given that, it's especially unfortunate and highly unusual that the company is so comfortable making major and unnecessary changes to their product, to things that were working well and that people were largely pleased with. If the next iOS or Android was this different from the current version, in such arbitrary ways, and users were forced to upgrade to it, there would be an uproar. But of course, that scenario is unimaginable. Apple and Google are much more deliberate and methodical and people actually own their phones.

 

Sure, Roon 1.8 works, but it doesn't work the same way, at all, if you were a deep user. They benefited some use cases (mobile users, classical listeners) and diminished others (desktop users, people who liked the highly functional, symmetrical and logical layout in 1.7 they bought paid for).

 

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I go on about this but it's clearly not the end of the world. I have 1.7 back, for now, and I'm all good. But I've learned to be much more careful with software as a service going forward.

 

  

6 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm not at all confident they will change some of the UI/cosmetic issues. I think they decide what they like and are insistent that all users have the same user environment. 

 

Yep.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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46 minutes ago, k6davis said:

  

 

It's take it or leave it because Roon is software as a service. I paid for it, but I don't own the software and can only use it on their terms. Given that, it's especially unfortunate and highly unusual that the company is so comfortable making major and unnecessary changes to their product, to things that were working well and that people were largely pleased with. If the next iOS or Android was this different from the current version, in such arbitrary ways, and users were forced to upgrade to it, there would be an uproar. But of course, that scenario is unimaginable. Apple and Google are much more deliberate and methodical and people actually own their phones.

 

Sure, Roon 1.8 works, but it doesn't work the same way, at all, if you were a deep user. They benefited some use cases (mobile users, classical listeners) and diminished others (desktop users, people who liked the highly functional, symmetrical and logical layout in 1.7 they bought paid for).

 

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I go on about this but it's clearly not the end of the world. I have 1.7 back, for now, and I'm all good. But I've learned to be much more careful with software as a service going forward.

 

  

 

Yep.

Understood, I get it.  I don't see this application different from any other in the sense of ongoing development, change etc..  I recall a lot of criticism on the dated 1.7 interface, needs improvement on aesthetics.......  So in the process of a new version, with new functionality, they changed the layout + aesthetics.  Hard to tell if these changes are a hit, fail or somewhere in between, but certainly brings out ahem....discussions!

 

I guess I'm not as emotionally attached to this application, but can understand how changes to certain workflows, especially if broken, could be upsetting.

 

Although I don't see where users are "forced to upgrade".  Unless their back-end enviro causes 1.7 to function no more.  The automatic software update setting, which is enabled by default, is IMHO, the dumbest setting - for any application.  I disable it first thing.

 

I'm pretty confident things will get worked out after this major rev's "first pass" so to speak.

 

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20 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Understood, I get it.  I don't see this application different from any other in the sense of ongoing development, change etc..  I recall a lot of criticism on the dated 1.7 interface, needs improvement on aesthetics.......  So in the process of a new version, with new functionality, they changed the layout + aesthetics.  Hard to tell if these changes are a hit, fail or somewhere in between, but certainly brings out ahem....discussions!

 

I guess I'm not as emotionally attached to this application, but can understand how changes to certain workflows, especially if broken, could be upsetting.

 

Although I don't see where users are "forced to upgrade".  Unless their back-end enviro causes 1.7 to function no more.  The automatic software update setting, which is enabled by default, is IMHO, the dumbest setting - for any application.  I disable it first thing.

 

I'm pretty confident things will get worked out after this major rev's "first pass" so to speak.

 

 

You make good points and are far more reasonable than I on Roon, because I was emotionally attached to it. Sounds silly as I type it, but it is the portal through which I accessed music, which is hugely important to me.

 

Users are not allowed to downgrade, get nags if they don't upgrade and while Roon isn't threatening to kill 1.7 outright, any back-end changes they make will not have it in mind. So it will likely gradually stop working. There's certainly no assurance that I can continue to use it.

 

The only thing I disagree with you on is Roon's development style not being "different than any other app". When an app has matured and is well regarded, I expect upgrades to consist of bug fixes and gradual refinement. Completely removing the sidebar is an example of a major change in how the app works. And for what benefit? Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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1 hour ago, k6davis said:

 

You make good points and are far more reasonable than I on Roon, because I was emotionally attached to it. Sounds silly as I type it, but it is the portal through which I accessed music, which is hugely important to me.

 

Users are not allowed to downgrade, get nags if they don't upgrade and while Roon isn't threatening to kill 1.7 outright, any back-end changes they make will not have it in mind. So it will likely gradually stop working. There's certainly no assurance that I can continue to use it.

 

The only thing I disagree with you on is Roon's development style not being "different than any other app". When an app has matured and is well regarded, I expect upgrades to consist of bug fixes and gradual refinement. Completely removing the sidebar is an example of a major change in how the app works. And for what benefit? Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

You have brought up and voiced many issues that have impacted your workflow and use case specific to you (many others have been similarly impacted too).  I have as well.  The end result has downgraded your experience (significantly in areas) to enjoying music and interfacing with roon.  None of those are good as we are all after similar / same audio goals for the most part.

 

Nothing wrong with being passionate, I am very much as well, and music is massively important to me.  It has molded and shaped me, to a large extent, of who I am.  Dunno where I'd be without it.

 

Many / most of us are also heavily invested in the roon enviro, both in time and hardware $, so its also understandable to have strong feelings towards changes.

 

Its healthy to discuss all of this and let roon know where they missed the mark.  Hopefully in a empathetic and constructive manner.  It wouldn't be in their interest not to listen to the end users and in the end, people will find alternatives if they aren't able to enjoy the experience.  At the same token, I think its fair to let the roon team evaluate their latest implementation, work on some improvements and go from there. 

 

Lets all not forget that it hasn't even been a week since 1.8 was released!😉

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2 hours ago, k6davis said:

Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

I'm pretty sure the Roon guys think it is a great design.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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For the first few days I hated Version 1.8.  But it slowly dawned on me that what I was really hating was "CHANGE." So I forced myself to simply explore the new stuff rather than try to cling to the old.  The more I did that, the more I found things i really like about 1.8. 

 

Most of the positives are about new ways of exploring music I don't yet have in my Roon collection, but want there based on the new exploration tools.  

 

On the negatives, I'm relying on the histry of the Roon engineering team and their willingness to listen to us users (particularly the power users) and make ongoing incremental changes.  The fact that Roon works hard to positively integrate all of Tidal, Qobuz and HQPlayer rather than insisting on their own or their preferred choice shows an ongoing willingness to give us what we, as customers want, rather than serving us the easiest way for them to make money....

 

So be vocal about what can be improved.  I'm pretty sure they are actively listening!

  

Synology NAS>i7-6700/32GB/NVIDIA QUADRO P4000 Win10>Qobuz+Tidal>Roon>HQPlayer>DSD512> Fiber Switch>Ultrarendu (NAA)>SMSL M500 DAC> Bryston SP3 pre>Levinson No. 432 amps>Magnepan (MG20.1x2, CCR and MMC2x6)

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23 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

For the first few days I hated Version 1.8.  But it slowly dawned on me that what I was really hating was "CHANGE." So I forced myself to simply explore the new stuff rather than try to cling to the old.  The more I did that, the more I found things i really like about 1.8. 

 

Most of the positives are about new ways of exploring music I don't yet have in my Roon collection, but want there based on the new exploration tools.  

 

On the negatives, I'm relying on the histry of the Roon engineering team and their willingness to listen to us users (particularly the power users) and make ongoing incremental changes.  The fact that Roon works hard to positively integrate all of Tidal, Qobuz and HQPlayer rather than insisting on their own or their preferred choice shows an ongoing willingness to give us what we, as customers want, rather than serving us the easiest way for them to make money....

 

So be vocal about what can be improved.  I'm pretty sure they are actively listening!

  

To their credit, they allow multiple critical threads at the Roon forum, even one referring to 1.8 as a disaster.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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@Foggie: LOL-your post about PURPLE-- IMHO I like it also but contend it is an upstate central NY thing ie MY thing-since I don't know anyone around that even knows what ROON is( and I haven't really followed the Vikings since Fran Tarkington who was really a NYGiant- just kidding) and Donavan McNabb !! 

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