Roon 1.8 Discussion

[The Computer Audiophile]

Still no way to see a record label’s content available on Qobuz or Tidal, like we can through native streaming apps. I want to browse ECM releases, but have to use the Qobuz app to do it. 
 

Also, I wish record labels were consolidated in Roon. Especially those with only case sensitivity differences. Example, ecm, Ecm, and ECM. 

 

[AudioDoctor]

4 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I can see it now. A Roon “app” store to purchase custom themes and extensions. 

 

They would have to somehow harden it against all the brilliant "hackers" that have brought us this far.

[firedog]

9 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. To me, every Roon upgrade has brought more complexity. I still love the app, but it’s long past user friendly. 

 

1.8 really leads me to the conclusion that the geeks/programmers took over. All sorts of things that make sense  and are efficient and really cook to a programmer, but not to lots of users. A typical user doesn't (and shouldn't have to) think like a programmer.

 

A good example is the tag function (in Roon, not in your file metadata). Roon changed it to an AND command for multiple tags from an OR. That broke users carefully cultivated bookmarks. No warning or explanation was given, and no workaround publicized, because: "everyone knows what Boolean logic is and how to use it". I'm inventing that, but that seems to have been the thought process.

In addition, removing a tag was made a several click process, and a process not at all intuitive/obvious. If you need an explanation spelled out in steps at the Roon forum of how to remove a tag - it's a fail.

 

Roon said essentially (paraphrase): "few users use this, so we didn't think it mattered that much".

Huh? Not many people use it so you essentially break it for them and make it much harder to use?

 

To their credit, with this and some other similar issues, they've admitted their mistakes and have said the will fix them.

 

I'm not at all confident they will change some of the UI/cosmetic issues. I think they decide what they like and are insistent that all users have the same user environment. But I am pretty confident the purely technical ones will be dealt with.

[firedog]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still no way to see a record label’s content available on Qobuz or Tidal, like we can through native streaming apps. I want to browse ECM releases, but have to use the Qobuz app to do it. 
 

Also, I wish record labels were consolidated in Roon. Especially those with only case sensitivity differences. Example, ecm, Ecm, and ECM. 

 

That issue needs to be solved. Have you posted it at the Roon forum?

 

One positive note: it used to drive me crazy that classical music with multiple titles (live Stravinsky's compositions, that often have both French and English titles)  were seen as separate, and it was very difficult to get all versions to come up in a search: this seems to have been solved in large part - at least as far as I can see so far.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Another nice feature I didn’t know about. You can extremely quickly scroll your albums by artist name  first letter. 

The function works in other views as well. 

 

 

Yes, the new filter function works extremely well. A definite plus.

[AudioDoctor]

I just went and took a look at the Roon forums and holy crap I had no idea the world was ending and someone, and I am not making this up, called Roon "ageist" for using the term "prime" when discussing a time period regarding an artist. This of course does not take into account that Roon is not creating the metadata they display. Its still a silly complaint though.

[R1200CL]

Great post here. (It’s loooong)

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-8-build-748-756-feedback/140792/1810

(Post number 1766)

[k6davis]

  

9 hours ago, Foggie said:

Not sure I quite follow this, are the roon devs suppose to ask if you like the font over here or over there, is it the right size, what color etc..?  How is re-coding, re-developing an application that's pretty complex, a take it or leave it scenario?  Genuine question.

 

I'm reading all the comments here and at roons site and thinking, there is no way the devs could possibly implement the million different opinions, comments, use cases and the like.  They have to fit in "x" amount of time to develop, test and release it.  That pretty much applies to any app I would guess. 

 

It's take it or leave it because Roon is software as a service. I paid for it, but I don't own the software and can only use it on their terms. Given that, it's especially unfortunate and highly unusual that the company is so comfortable making major and unnecessary changes to their product, to things that were working well and that people were largely pleased with. If the next iOS or Android was this different from the current version, in such arbitrary ways, and users were forced to upgrade to it, there would be an uproar. But of course, that scenario is unimaginable. Apple and Google are much more deliberate and methodical and people actually own their phones.

 

Sure, Roon 1.8 works, but it doesn't work the same way, at all, if you were a deep user. They benefited some use cases (mobile users, classical listeners) and diminished others (desktop users, people who liked the highly functional, symmetrical and logical layout in 1.7 they bought paid for).

 

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I go on about this but it's clearly not the end of the world. I have 1.7 back, for now, and I'm all good. But I've learned to be much more careful with software as a service going forward.

 

  

6 hours ago, firedog said:

I'm not at all confident they will change some of the UI/cosmetic issues. I think they decide what they like and are insistent that all users have the same user environment. 

 

Yep.

[Foggie]

46 minutes ago, k6davis said:

  

 

It's take it or leave it because Roon is software as a service. I paid for it, but I don't own the software and can only use it on their terms. Given that, it's especially unfortunate and highly unusual that the company is so comfortable making major and unnecessary changes to their product, to things that were working well and that people were largely pleased with. If the next iOS or Android was this different from the current version, in such arbitrary ways, and users were forced to upgrade to it, there would be an uproar. But of course, that scenario is unimaginable. Apple and Google are much more deliberate and methodical and people actually own their phones.

 

Sure, Roon 1.8 works, but it doesn't work the same way, at all, if you were a deep user. They benefited some use cases (mobile users, classical listeners) and diminished others (desktop users, people who liked the highly functional, symmetrical and logical layout in 1.7 they bought paid for).

 

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. I go on about this but it's clearly not the end of the world. I have 1.7 back, for now, and I'm all good. But I've learned to be much more careful with software as a service going forward.

 

  

 

Yep.

Understood, I get it.  I don't see this application different from any other in the sense of ongoing development, change etc..  I recall a lot of criticism on the dated 1.7 interface, needs improvement on aesthetics.......  So in the process of a new version, with new functionality, they changed the layout + aesthetics.  Hard to tell if these changes are a hit, fail or somewhere in between, but certainly brings out ahem....discussions!

 

I guess I'm not as emotionally attached to this application, but can understand how changes to certain workflows, especially if broken, could be upsetting.

 

Although I don't see where users are "forced to upgrade".  Unless their back-end enviro causes 1.7 to function no more.  The automatic software update setting, which is enabled by default, is IMHO, the dumbest setting - for any application.  I disable it first thing.

 

I'm pretty confident things will get worked out after this major rev's "first pass" so to speak.

 

[k6davis]

20 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Understood, I get it.  I don't see this application different from any other in the sense of ongoing development, change etc..  I recall a lot of criticism on the dated 1.7 interface, needs improvement on aesthetics.......  So in the process of a new version, with new functionality, they changed the layout + aesthetics.  Hard to tell if these changes are a hit, fail or somewhere in between, but certainly brings out ahem....discussions!

 

I guess I'm not as emotionally attached to this application, but can understand how changes to certain workflows, especially if broken, could be upsetting.

 

Although I don't see where users are "forced to upgrade".  Unless their back-end enviro causes 1.7 to function no more.  The automatic software update setting, which is enabled by default, is IMHO, the dumbest setting - for any application.  I disable it first thing.

 

I'm pretty confident things will get worked out after this major rev's "first pass" so to speak.

 

 

You make good points and are far more reasonable than I on Roon, because I was emotionally attached to it. Sounds silly as I type it, but it is the portal through which I accessed music, which is hugely important to me.

 

Users are not allowed to downgrade, get nags if they don't upgrade and while Roon isn't threatening to kill 1.7 outright, any back-end changes they make will not have it in mind. So it will likely gradually stop working. There's certainly no assurance that I can continue to use it.

 

The only thing I disagree with you on is Roon's development style not being "different than any other app". When an app has matured and is well regarded, I expect upgrades to consist of bug fixes and gradual refinement. Completely removing the sidebar is an example of a major change in how the app works. And for what benefit? Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

[Foggie]

1 hour ago, k6davis said:

 

You make good points and are far more reasonable than I on Roon, because I was emotionally attached to it. Sounds silly as I type it, but it is the portal through which I accessed music, which is hugely important to me.

 

Users are not allowed to downgrade, get nags if they don't upgrade and while Roon isn't threatening to kill 1.7 outright, any back-end changes they make will not have it in mind. So it will likely gradually stop working. There's certainly no assurance that I can continue to use it.

 

The only thing I disagree with you on is Roon's development style not being "different than any other app". When an app has matured and is well regarded, I expect upgrades to consist of bug fixes and gradual refinement. Completely removing the sidebar is an example of a major change in how the app works. And for what benefit? Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

You have brought up and voiced many issues that have impacted your workflow and use case specific to you (many others have been similarly impacted too).  I have as well.  The end result has downgraded your experience (significantly in areas) to enjoying music and interfacing with roon.  None of those are good as we are all after similar / same audio goals for the most part.

 

Nothing wrong with being passionate, I am very much as well, and music is massively important to me.  It has molded and shaped me, to a large extent, of who I am.  Dunno where I'd be without it.

 

Many / most of us are also heavily invested in the roon enviro, both in time and hardware $, so its also understandable to have strong feelings towards changes.

 

Its healthy to discuss all of this and let roon know where they missed the mark.  Hopefully in a empathetic and constructive manner.  It wouldn't be in their interest not to listen to the end users and in the end, people will find alternatives if they aren't able to enjoy the experience.  At the same token, I think its fair to let the roon team evaluate their latest implementation, work on some improvements and go from there. 

 

Lets all not forget that it hasn't even been a week since 1.8 was released!😉

[firedog]

2 hours ago, k6davis said:

Roon places little value on creating the best design possible and then gently refining it. Change is inevitable and often good, but so is a degree of consistency. 

I'm pretty sure the Roon guys think it is a great design.

[sdolezalek]

For the first few days I hated Version 1.8.  But it slowly dawned on me that what I was really hating was "CHANGE." So I forced myself to simply explore the new stuff rather than try to cling to the old.  The more I did that, the more I found things i really like about 1.8. 

 

Most of the positives are about new ways of exploring music I don't yet have in my Roon collection, but want there based on the new exploration tools.  

 

On the negatives, I'm relying on the histry of the Roon engineering team and their willingness to listen to us users (particularly the power users) and make ongoing incremental changes.  The fact that Roon works hard to positively integrate all of Tidal, Qobuz and HQPlayer rather than insisting on their own or their preferred choice shows an ongoing willingness to give us what we, as customers want, rather than serving us the easiest way for them to make money....

 

So be vocal about what can be improved.  I'm pretty sure they are actively listening!

  

[firedog]

23 minutes ago, sdolezalek said:

For the first few days I hated Version 1.8.  But it slowly dawned on me that what I was really hating was "CHANGE." So I forced myself to simply explore the new stuff rather than try to cling to the old.  The more I did that, the more I found things i really like about 1.8. 

 

Most of the positives are about new ways of exploring music I don't yet have in my Roon collection, but want there based on the new exploration tools.  

 

On the negatives, I'm relying on the histry of the Roon engineering team and their willingness to listen to us users (particularly the power users) and make ongoing incremental changes.  The fact that Roon works hard to positively integrate all of Tidal, Qobuz and HQPlayer rather than insisting on their own or their preferred choice shows an ongoing willingness to give us what we, as customers want, rather than serving us the easiest way for them to make money....

 

So be vocal about what can be improved.  I'm pretty sure they are actively listening!

  

To their credit, they allow multiple critical threads at the Roon forum, even one referring to 1.8 as a disaster.

[bobbmd]

@Foggie: LOL-your post about PURPLE-- IMHO I like it also but contend it is an upstate central NY thing ie MY thing-since I don't know anyone around that even knows what ROON is( and I haven't really followed the Vikings since Fran Tarkington who was really a NYGiant- just kidding) and Donavan McNabb !! 

[Foggie]

1 hour ago, bobbmd said:

@Foggie: LOL-your post about PURPLE-- IMHO I like it also but contend it is an upstate central NY thing ie MY thing-since I don't know anyone around that even knows what ROON is( and I haven't really followed the Vikings since Fran Tarkington who was really a NYGiant- just kidding) and Donavan McNabb !! 

Lol, actually I didn't even think of them (trying to forget, ooy)!  Was referencing Prince 👍

 

[charlesphoto]

Some screen shots of my final 'build.' Franklin Gothic Book for text and Franklin Gothic Regular for other items. 616161 for main background. Of course not sized up to full desktop screen dimensions. Easier on my 57 year old eyes imo. 

[AudioDoctor]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what do these checkmarks mean?

 

 

[k6davis]

23 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what do these checkmarks mean?

 

They are supposed to represent the best songs on the album  I never was sure who's was deciding that. 

[firedog]

3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said:

Maybe this is a dumb question, but what do these checkmarks mean?

 

 

They're the Allmusic.com "picks" for tracks. Same source as the album "reviews".

[firedog]

another answer from the Roon staff about updates/fixes: apparently some of the issues will be fixed soon:

Quote

 

 

user:

 I wonder if someone from room ever bother to read anything in here?

Answer from Mike Fass, Roon Labs

I

Quote

 

I can guarantee we’ve been reading.

I haven’t been posting much over the last few days because most of my time has been spent making all this feedback actionable – turning what I’m reading on Community into tickets and specifications that our designers and developers can start on immediately.

Some of the feedback will take time to address, but a number of major feedback points should be resolved in the next week or so. Some of that work was completed late last week, and I’m getting a number of other changes and fixes lined up for the coming week now.

We won’t address every request but we’re absolutely reading it all and we have pretty thick skin, so keep it coming everyone.

 

 

 

[loop7]

22 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Franklin Gothic Book for text and Franklin Gothic Regular for other items. 616161 for main background

I think I may go with your scheme. Very easy to read.

[Philippe Bill]

I think Roon 1.8 is a success. Of course, there are some technical issues that I’m sure Roon will address as quickly as possible, Roon needs may be a wider beta program

[The Computer Audiophile]

Anyone else have huge issues with Roon 1.8 this morning? Taking forever to load an artist's page, roon radio error messages, etc...

[The Computer Audiophile]

I keep getting this error as well.