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Roon 1.8 Discussion


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Here's the light theme. I again changed the purple for blue, and made the background a few shades less bright.

 

Roon light - modded.jpg

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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26 minutes ago, Foggie said:

Purple is quite nice IMHO, especially with the dark theme.  It must be a MN thing 😉

Didn't hate the purple. Prefer the blue. Must be a Dallas thing. Lived there a long time ago.:)

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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On 2/10/2021 at 6:08 AM, ssh said:

 

On 2/10/2021 at 6:39 AM, firedog said:

to each his own. I'd like to have the option to have it pick only a random 20 or 50 or 100 tracks. That's all I need at any one time, and thousands of tracks just means the actions of the program are slower.

 

What people are saying in the Roon forum is that if you have, say, 10,000 tracks, shuffle will sort them alphabetically (by artist, I presume) and only play music from the first 5,000. So you'd never hear music from the second half of your library. Which is not the desired effect for this function at all.

 

Sounds like a bug that I'm sure they'll fix.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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k6davis,

 

You nailed it!  All of the criticism is on point.

 

The shuffle mode problem is the biggest problem for me. I used to be treated to a track by Lefty Frizzell followed by Mary Halvorson piece than pivoting to Max Richter. Not anymore. I hope the fixes come soon.

SSH

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14 minutes ago, ssh said:

k6davis,

 

You nailed it!  All of the criticism is on point.

 

The shuffle mode problem is the biggest problem for me. I used to be treated to a track by Lefty Frizzell followed by Mary Halvorson piece than pivoting to Max Richter. Not anymore. I hope the fixes come soon.

Easiest workaround for now is go to your album page and select all, and then make a bookmark (label it something like Shuffle Albums, etc). That works.

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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2 minutes ago, ssh said:

I get to "select all" but I can't find the "bookmark".

Upper right hand corner? I'm on Mac.

SERVER CLOSET (in office directly below living room stereo):NUC 7i5BNH with Roon ROCK (ZeroZone 12V on the NUC)>Cisco 2690L-16PS switch>Sonore opticalModule (Uptone LPS 1.2)>

LIVING ROOM: Sonore opticalRendu Roon version (Sonore Power Supply)> Shunyata Venom USB>Naim DAC V1>Witchhat DIN>Naim NAP 160 Bolt Down>Chord Rumor 2>Audio Physic Compact Classics. OFFICE: opticalModule> Sonore microRendu 1.4> Matrix Mini-i Pro 3> Naim NAP 110>NACA5>KEF Ls50's. BJC 6a and Ghent Catsnake 6a JSSG ethernet; AC cables: Shunyata Venom NR V-10; Audience Forte F3; Ice Age copper/copper; Sean Jacobs CHC PowerBlack, Moon Audio DIN>RCA, USB A>C. Isolation: Herbie's Audio Lab. 

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1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

The overall design is a mess. Kind of like the first time somebody decided to design something in Word or Pagemaker and are like - wow, I can make this big, and this a different font and this a different font and move things all around - without thinking of why do those and what do those changes bring to the big picture. I've worked with some great designers and frankly would be embarrassed to show them this design.

 

I couldn't agree more. The white huge font (for things I don't need to read) combined with the white tiny font (for things I do need to read) on the (literally) black background along with smaller icons, waveform and the vast amount of empty space... I just can't. It hurts my mind. And that's just the look of it, let alone the changes to the way things work. 

 

It's like they asked me to tell them everything I liked about Roon and then said, "Great! Okay. We're gonna move or remove all of that. And then change the way nearly everything works, in ways that no one was asking for!"

 

I've already seen posts from the Roon team to the effect of: "Most people like it". Even worse (for me), that seems to actually be true. What's certain is that the Roon team likes it, or they wouldn't have done in the first place. 

 

Such is life. Things don't always go your way. But what I really learned from this is to be very careful when it comes to "software as a service". You pay for it, but you don't own it. They can do anything they want to with it at any time. I bought lifetime, and tomorrow, they could decide to make it have an orange strobe-light background and remove all of the "play" buttons and there wouldn't be a damned thing I could do about it.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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I think a lot / some of it is getting use to doing things a new way.  I don't discount bugs, loss of functionality and or a specific function changing etc..  But on the flip side there are also a lot of new things that are also pretty cool as well. 

 

I don't jump to immediately hating this or any version after 10, 20min of use.  I use it for awhile (days/a week), take it all in, figure out what's new, what's cool, what sucks, what isn't working and then sort of take an overall snapshot.  Sure one can find out a lot in a short amount of time, but after living with it for a bit, your outlook can change.  A major rev almost always brings a whole slew of things - good, bad or indifferent, and over time many things get worked out.  That's why I always wait to migrate to a major rev.  However, much of the severe negativity, doesn't line up thus far with what I'm experiencing.  The personal decision to become unhinged is an option I suppose.

 

I had some immediate impressions / feelings some of which were, "hmm not too sure about this".  Much of that has been put to rest already.  I just updated yesterday and have about 4 hrs with it.  In that time I mostly played music, since THAT is the most important thing and trying to figure out any SQ changes.  Beyond that I got familiar with all that is new, tried a few things and will start digging in this eve. 

 

1.7 was the same freaking thing.  Minutes after being released it was the end of the world and was a pile on shit fest.  Again, nothing wrong with disliking it and having / sharing opinions and real use cases of how things are or aren't working. 

 

It isn't perfect and won't please everyone. 

 

One thing I do love about this version is in credits, it lists the artists track contribution (multi musicians)!  I discovered that accidentally and have always disliked (with a passion) why meta data isn't full and complete.  I would always have to go to discogs to find out bass player #1 is on tracks 4+5, drummer #2 is 8+12 etc..  Not sure if it works on all albums but anyway thought is was a nice function.

 

 

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3 hours ago, k6davis said:

I hate it. I couldn't really stand to even look at it or use it after a while. I used a clone I made of my hard drive to revert back to 1.7 and I couldn't be happier.

 

I have a lifetime subscription, but am holding off to upgrade to 1.8 until the bugs are fixed, thus have no direct experience or opinion on 1.8.

 

That said, I wonder how 1.8 detractors would view 1.8 if they had never experienced 1.7?  How much of the consternation is derived from comparing the two versions, and being upset about the differences?  What if the comparison mindset was set aside?  What if 1.8 could be seen totally fresh, without any notion of comparing it a past version?  And when 1.8 is evaluated on its own, I wonder what the results would be?  Would the consternation temperature be lowered?

 

The point being, how much of the dissatisfaction revolves around the act of comparison, rather than on the actual 1.8 upgrade?

 

This is from my new book, "Zen And The Art Of Roon Upgrades"  😆 

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On 2/12/2021 at 12:39 PM, charlesphoto said:

Here's a mid-gray theme. So much better imo and readable. Just need to work out a few things like the name hyperlinks.

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-02-12 at 9.32.47 AM.png

Screen Shot 2021-02-12 at 9.33.51 AM.png

 

@charlesphoto

 

1) Your post made me stop dead in my tracks (pun intended)

2) First, I am a huge Anouar Brahem fan. 

3) Second: seems you like Vibvaldi as much as I do... I have all album in that collectio

4) Now, the most important: can you share the recipe for your colour scheme? It is very beautiful. Tx.

Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon

Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2

Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR

Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable

Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2

All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com)

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The Problem with Roon.

 

Keep in mind I am myself a software developer of web-based applications and native mobile apps.

I have 4 UX/UI staffer onstage. Our software also tries to get user to organize content and "get things done".

 

Problem is... Listening to music is a VERY personal thing. All members of AS love to tinker with everything, and be in control of things, etc.

Just look at the number of elements we use to weak our system to _our linking_.

 

The Roon team makes decisions for us - and we are stuck with them. They force change upon us (like vertical scrolling and many more items to long to mention).

Yes, I complained in the early days horizontal scrolling, but then realized I have vertical event more, because I cannot go back to "about 6 pages ago when I started to add some specific albums to my library). Again, that's personal.

 

Roon is not cheap, which adds another layer of frustration. Do they have a user group? Do they consult us?

I'm asking because I have never seen any request for help/feedback.

Would love to take part.

 

Might write an essay on Roon and people one day...

For now, my biggest gripe is that "Tags" seems to not display anymore...

 

But there is an easy cure..... Pick an album and press "Play".

 

 

 

Mac Mini Late 2014 (16G/SSD) w Uptone JS-2 w OWC Thunderbay 4 Mini RAID (JS-2) / Roon

Aqua LinQ w EtherCon cable (Ghent) w Uptone EtherRegen w Uptone JS-2

Aqua Formula xHD w Ocellia RCA Interconnect & Shunyata Delta NR

Kora TB 200 Integrated Amplifier w Audio Art Power Cable

Magico V2 w Ocellia speaker cables w Shunyata Dark Field Elevator & JL Audio E-Sub e110 X 2

All equipment, including subwoofer on Modulum platforms (modulumaudio.com)

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56 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

I have a lifetime subscription, but am holding off to upgrade to 1.8 until the bugs are fixed, thus have no direct experience or opinion on 1.8.


It’s really not bugs. Rather features 😂

Unless there something special you’re after, I don’t think the upgrade would harm your music experience. Rather the opposite.

 

If you have an available PC, just install and test it out.

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54 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

That said, I wonder how 1.8 detractors would view 1.8 if they had never experienced 1.7?

This is a key point. Depending on your control device, the use cases are wildly different. For example, users who only use Tidal/Qobuz have never seen a Roon waveform before. So the fact that it's small now has zero impact on them. People who use it on a phone have never seen the sidebar before. So its absence means absolutely nothing to them. 

 

It used to be that the desktop app was primary and the mobile apps were secondary, but it appears that Roon has gone mobile first. Fonts are smaller, images are bigger, everything requires scrolling now and there are wide open empty spaces everywhere when you have a large, landscape screen.

 

They should have optimized small portrait screens vs large wide landscape screens, but they did not.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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There were a couple of stylistic things that weren't my taste. Apparently a lot of others felt the same way. But there are already unofficial fixes for them.

There are several other common complaints that the Roon team has already said they will address.

Overall the new version is good.

A couple of serious bugs were already fixed in an update-they didn't affect everyone, but were pretty major for those they did.

There are only a few actual bugs left - pretty minor and many people won't notice them.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)+Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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3 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

It’s really not bugs. Rather features

I agree with this. They had some issues out of the gate, but things seem to be working fine. And things that are obvious bugs (shuffle, etc) will get fixed.

 

4 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Unless there something special you’re after, I don’t think the upgrade would harm your music experience. Rather the opposite.

I don't agree with this. But that's a matter of taste and opinion. Some of us find the new UI to be very unpleasant to use compared to 1.7, but we are not the majority. You may love it. I'm using 1.7 until it stops working or 1.8 moves more in my direction, which I don't think it will.

Roon Server: Core i7-3770S, WS2012 + AO => HQP Server: Core, i7-9700K, HQPlayer OS => NAA: Celeron NUC, HQP NAA => ISO Regen with UltraCap LPS 1.2 => Mapleshade USB Cable => Lampizator L4 DSD-Only Balanced DAC Preamp => Blue Jeans Belden Balanced Cables => Mivera PurePower SE Amp => Magnepan 3.7i

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19 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Roon waveform before

Can you show me a picture of this so I’m 100% sure what we’re talking about. 
 

This one ?

 

BC0E676E-D3DC-4C74-953D-FFC7D885E586.jpeg
 

Why not add a request for VU meters 😀
or vst plug-ins 

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