MHDT Pagoda vs Denafrips Pontus vs BorderPatrol SE-i vs Audio Mirror TUBADOUR III

[JohanE]

Hello all! My first post here on these forums. :)
My system today consists of an Audio Analogue AACento amplifier connected with Audience cables to a pair of Atohm GT2-HD speakers. 
Here in Sweden Atohm is a fairly unknown brand.
My DAC today is a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+. Even though I like it I find myself curious to try out something else, R2R or something with tubes. Or both.

Do anyone of you have any insight of the various DACs in my headline?

Best regards Johan

[Chorus]

 I too am a new owner of  the AM Tubadour 3. I owned a Denafrips Ares 2 prior and sold it after two weeks.

I had wanted an R2R with tubes but tried to cheap out with the Ares. Too harsh for me. Very detailed though.

Good Bass. So my question now is 

-Upgrade the AM to the SE for about + $700

or

-Try the Pontus. Currently 30-45 days out. $1700

 

I think I will do the upgrade with Vlad.

 

Reason is the AM's open, organic sound. Also it makes my big speakers disappear.

I prefer the musicality aspect over the detail.

Jeff DAC review 2-21.docx

[Audiophile53]

Agree Chorus.  I have the AM Tubadour III SE with all the upgrades and I have never heard a better DAC.  The Tubadour is very musical and compares favorably with my best LP's on a properly set up and very end rig.

 

Post your review after you receive the upgrades.

[Foggie]

4 hours ago, Audiophile53 said:

Agree Chorus.  I have the AM Tubadour III SE with all the upgrades and I have never heard a better DAC.  The Tubadour is very musical and compares favorably with my best LP's on a properly set up and very end rig.

 

Post your review after you receive the upgrades.

Curious - what other dac's did you own or compare to Tubadour?

[Calvin & Hobbes]

On 2/9/2021 at 9:10 PM, Chorus said:

 I too am a new owner of  the AM Tubadour 3. I owned a Denafrips Ares 2 prior and sold it after two weeks.

I had wanted an R2R with tubes but tried to cheap out with the Ares. Too harsh for me. Very detailed though.

Good Bass.

I agree that the Ares 2 had a little harshness which is missing from the Pontus 2. Adding a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord cut out the harshness, but that cord is almost the same price as the Ares 2 DAC.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

Here are my impressions of the Pontus II DAC that's been in my system for about 3 weeks now:

 

I've had a Chord Qutest in my system for the past 2 months with the intention of comparing it to the Denafrips Pontus II.

 

Background on the Qutest as a reference point: The Qutest sounded really good with notably a high level of detail retrieval. There were two shortcomings that stood out for me about the Qutest.

1. With the stock power supply, there was a slight, and I do mean slight, degree of harshness. I found that using a pretty common Anker phone/laptop backup battery both reduced the noise floor and took away that slight bit of harshness. NOTE: if you try this, make sure the battery's output is 5V.
2. The Qutest is exceptionally detailed in its sound. But, the Qutest conveyed that detail in a way that seemed artificially Technicolor. Meaning that there was a lot of detail, but either conveyed to a degree or conveyed in a way that didn't feel natural or lifelike to me. It sounded slightly, and again I do mean slightly, more "audiophile" than musical in sound.

 

My Objectives for getting the Pontus: In my decision to try out the Pontus, my objective was to get 90% of resolution that a Qutest provides with more of the warmth that I heard in the Denafrips Ares II. Harshness and listening fatigue are very real problems for me with digital audio so a balance of detail and warmth is important for me.

 

Impressions of the Pontus:

 

Resolution and Warmth: I always thought that resolution and warmth were traits on two opposite ends of a spectrum.  It has already been eye-opening that Pontus actually seems to have even more detail and resolution than the Qutest and also more smoothness and warmth than the Ares II.  What's interesting is that this resolution is delivered in a more lifelike and natural sounding way than via the Qutest. I'm noticing this right now with the piano and string bass in the 'Pueblo Nuevo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording as well as the trumpet and the tonal quality of metal and wood percussion instruments.  The Pontus sounds both smooth and full in its sound. One artist for which this unique combination of resolution and warmth really does justice is Jimi Hendrix. I often have not liked to listen to Hendrix on digital due to harshness and noise from jitter and analog sources, compared to my typically better experience of listening to Jimi Hendrix on vinyl.  I'm not finding this to be the case with the Pontus. Jimi Hendrix' Voodoo Child is sounding both engaging and listenable via the Pontus.

 

With the Pontus powered by a Shunyata Venom power cord, I'm hearing no sense of the slight harshness that I heard from the Ares. I also have a Synergistic Research UEF Blue power cord that made the Ares II DAC sound smoother without any loss of detail. I'll try that out on the Pontus DAC in a couple of days to see if it makes any difference to the sound of the Pontus.

 

 

Presence: Instruments and voices are conveyed by the Pontus with what sounds like an appropriate level of weight for each instrument. On the 'Orgullecida' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording, the string bass has a greater level of fullness in its presentation than the voices, electric guitar and trumpet as would be appropriate in real life. In contrast, the Qutest communicates the details but seems to be less able to convey the weight and fullness of each voice and instrument's sound.  The 'air' around voices are also conveyed by the Pontus in a very palpable way but with a sense of refinement and restraint that sounds realistic when compared to a real-life performance.  In the Cowboy Junkies' 'Trinity Sessions' recording, I hear this very clearly in the 'Blue Moon Revisited' track.

 

 

Soundstage: The Pontus definitely has a broader and fuller soundstage than the Ares and the Qutest as well, I think. The fullness of the Pontus sound might be a major contributor to my perception that it has a bigger soundstage than the Qutest. I hear this in the Cowboy Junkies' Trinity Sessions album.

 

Pace & Emotional Range: What appeals to me most about the Pontus and perhaps what I noticed first was wide range of pace that the Pontus is able to convey.  Some DACs like the Qutest have good pace. Other DACs such as the Ares II sound more relaxed. It's intriguing to hear a DAC that can sound both relaxed as well as upbeat and dynamic as needed. For the Pontus, that ability allows it to sound relaxed and calm or energetic and dynamic depending on the music being played. Music through the Pontus seems to be conveyed as the artist or composer intended instead of the Pontus imposing its own sonic signature onto the music. Examples of these two ends of this scale that I have heard are Sara Watkins' new 'Under the Pepper Tree' album versus Les McCann & Eddie Harris' excellent 'Swiss Movement' recording of their performance at the Montreux Jazz Festival.

 

Flow & Continuity: Consistent with my comments on the Pontus' adaptability in terms of pace and emotional range, it is conveys the flow of music really well. Its presentation makes it easy to "follow the tune" when listening to music. For lack of a better way to describe this quality of the Pontus, I would say that it has a lot of patience in how it conveys music. It's not in a rush to get the next note out as the Qutest sometimes seems to be, but can play quicker or slower depending on emotional nature of the music. The 'Murmullo' track on the Buena Vista Social Club recording has a languid pace that the Pontus conveys well while not losing the underlying drive behind the music.  Partly this is due to good timing, but the Pontus' ability to convey tonal colors also helps it to provide this sense of drive and forward movement even on music that is not conducive to an insistent sense of pace. I'd like to highlight one recording on which I'm hearing this quality from the Pontus, but the truth is that I hear this sense of flow on everything I'm listening to with the Pontus.

 

Sound quality of streamed versus local files:  Something else that I've heard is that the Pontus seems to at least narrow the sonic difference between streamed Qobuz files and local files. Local files have always sounded better to me. I attribute that to a shorter signal chain without the digital and analog (such as EMI) noise that might come in through being sent through the internet and then transmitted through my local network. Listening to local files and the equivalent music track from Qobuz were so very close in sound quality when doing sighted listening, that I'm don't know if I could distinguish the difference in blind testing.

 

What listening preferences would the Pontus fit well: The Pontus would be a great choice for anyone that appreciates the sound and feel of live music. More than any other DAC I heard, the Pontus seems to savor the texture and feel of every note of music.  The Pontus does particularly well with reproducing the textures, tonal quality and emotions of voices and acoustic music.

 

What listening preferences would the Pontus not fit as well: Listeners that  want a sharp cut-glass feel to their music might not appreciate the Pontus as much. The Pontus digs out a lot of detail, but it presents detail in a way that sounds natural. If you listen to a lot of electronic music and are looking for razor-sharp sounding transients, the Pontus might not fit your preferences as much as the Qutest.

 

Summary: I'm sure there are more expensive DACs that might improve on some of the performance aspects of the Pontus, but I am so impressed by the natural and lifelike way that the Pontus communicates music with no apparent shortcomings in resolution of detail, pace, or tonal quality. I greatly appreciate that the Pontus seems to be causing no listening fatigue for me while still presenting music in a full and detailed sounding manner.

[Chorus]

C&H, There was a sugar once that went by that moniker.

You have a well developed skill in writing. Much better than

most reviewers I follow. 

 

I have yet to hear a Pontus but everything I have heard

about it matches your conclusion. An improved Ares.

 

The Chord just doesn't cut it by comparison.

 

I would enjoy comparing the Doge 7, Pagoda MDHT  and Pontus 

to what I have now. 

 

Okay then someone with funds to spare- Buy them all and lets organize

a listening session!

 

[GregWormald]

4 hours ago, Calvin & Hobbes said:

<snip>I greatly appreciate that the Pontus seems to be causing no listening fatigue for me while still presenting music in a full and detailed sounding manner.

While I'm still awaiting my new active speakers and listening to some 30+ years old amp and bookshelves, I have also not noticed any fatigue from the Pontus II. This has been my major problem with digital for decades, and I'm really glad it seems to be gone.

 

It was also not there with the Ares II that I auditioned, but I wanted a less 'smoothed out' approach with better detail. The Pontus gives me that.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

11 hours ago, Chorus said:

C&H, There was a sugar once that went by that moniker.

You have a well developed skill in writing. Much better than

most reviewers I follow. 

 

I have yet to hear a Pontus but everything I have heard

about it matches your conclusion. An improved Ares.

 

The Chord just doesn't cut it by comparison.

 

I would enjoy comparing the Doge 7, Pagoda MDHT  and Pontus 

to what I have now. 

 

Okay then someone with funds to spare- Buy them all and lets organize

a listening session!

 

Thank you for your kind words. Listening and writing down my impressions gives me a nice break from all of the business writing I do, as well as allowing me to relive the excitement and remember my initial impressions of a new piece of audio gear.

 

I bought the Pontus new and the Qutest used to be able to do exactly what you suggested for those two DACs. I do have to say that after first hearing the Qutest, I knew that I was looking for something "more" from a DAC. With the Pontus in place, I'm totally happy to forget about gear and just listen to music.

[GregWormald]

20 hours ago, Calvin & Hobbes said:

I'm totally happy to forget about gear and just listen to music.

Are you sure you're all right? That's a very radical position to take!

[Calvin & Hobbes]

2 hours ago, GregWormald said:

"Are you sure you're all right? That's a very radical position to take!

I tell you. It was a strange feeling and one that I've rarely had with digital audio equipment. Usually when I'm first exposed to equipment, I do listen critically and I do listen to the equipment...but I didn't with the Pontus. The music coming out felt just right.  Even beyond the sound...it was the feeling of the music.

 

When I turned on the Pontus...no break-in (they do get 100 hours of break in before final QA testing at the factory)..not warmed up...etc....etc., my first thought was 'Wow, that music sounds really good.'  That was how I knew right away that the Pontus DAC was really good.

 

In hindsight, it's reminded why I've continued to be a vinyl listener for 32 years. With digital, I seem to listen to the equipment.  Vinyl is more likely to get me to listen to the music. And even then, it's not all turntables that have that effect on me.

 

In short, the Pontus has hit my "good enough" bar...meaning I'm sure there is "better" out there, but the Pontus is "good enough" so that I am so intrigued by the music coming out that I forget about the equipment.

[johndoe21ro]

I'm afraid Qutest can do much more with a proper linear power supply such as a Paul Hynes SR-4, UpTone JS-2 and the likes... I'm not trying to defend the Qutest but it's performance is related to the ancillaries in a very profound way... In fact, I'm searching for a replacement but I couldn't find the right price/performance performer so far...

[feelingears]

Complete agreement on power quality. And so you're running Qutest with the well respected $925 JS-2.

 

But, C&H is getting better results immediately out of the box, and spending $1,000 less on the Pontus (rounded). If you're really searching, I suspect you should check out the Pontus and sell the Qutest/JS-2!

[Calvin & Hobbes]

100% agreement about power quality on the Qutest as well.  I suspected that the Qutest could sound better with cleaner power and heard that right away by sticking a car battery jump start pack with a 5V output on the Qutest. The improvements that were immediately apparent to me were a lower noise floor and reduction of a slight bit of harshness.

 

I am less sure that I am able to get the Qutest to put out the type of sound quality that I prefer. The Qutest is exceptionally detailed in its sound. But, the Qutest conveyed that detail in a way that seemed artificially Technicolor. Meaning that there was a lot of detail, but either conveyed to a degree or conveyed in a way that didn't feel natural or lifelike to me. It sounded slightly, and again I do mean slightly, more "audiophile" than musical in sound.

 

In contrast, the sound from the Pontus just sounded surprisingly real to me straight out of the box. Music seemed to flow more easily to my ears as well. Listening to the Qutest feels like a more intellectual, analytical exercise to me, while listening to the Pontus is more engaging in an emotional way.

[OldBigEars]

4 hours ago, Calvin & Hobbes said:

100% agreement about power quality on the Qutest as well.  I suspected that the Qutest could sound better with cleaner power and heard that right away by sticking a car battery jump start pack with a 5V output on the Qutest. The improvements that were immediately apparent to me were a lower noise floor and reduction of a slight bit of harshness.

 

I am less sure that I am able to get the Qutest to put out the type of sound quality that I prefer. The Qutest is exceptionally detailed in its sound. But, the Qutest conveyed that detail in a way that seemed artificially Technicolor. Meaning that there was a lot of detail, but either conveyed to a degree or conveyed in a way that didn't feel natural or lifelike to me. It sounded slightly, and again I do mean slightly, more "audiophile" than musical in sound.

 

In contrast, the sound from the Pontus just sounded surprisingly real to me straight out of the box. Music seemed to flow more easily to my ears as well. Listening to the Qutest feels like a more intellectual, analytical exercise to me, while listening to the Pontus is more engaging in an emotional way.

 

It's true that the Qutest has an analytical presentation.  I suspect it really depends on the synergy with the rest of your system, as well as your preferred music genres.  It probably works best with a warmish amp and/or speakers.  I'm curious to hear a Pontus but unfortunately the only way to do that is to take a big leap and buy the product (or one of the other Denafrips models). I can't bring myself to splash out and go through the buy/test/sell process based purely on forum reports. But many are doing what you did and are delighted with Denafrips.

[Calvin & Hobbes]

17 hours ago, OldBigEars said:

 

It's true that the Qutest has an analytical presentation.  I suspect it really depends on the synergy with the rest of your system, as well as your preferred music genres.  It probably works best with a warmish amp and/or speakers.

There certainly is an element of warmth, but perhaps the bigger difference that I hear between the Pontus and the Qutest is the Pontus' ability to convey either ease or pace depending on what music is being played. The Qutest sounds perhaps more  insistent all of the time given the way it portrays detail.

 

I'm sure in about six months, there will be people selling their Pontus due to either "upgrading" to a more expensive Denafrips DAC (which I've seen already) or trading in to get the new "flavor of the month" DAC. You'll be able to buy a Pontus, try it out, and be able to resell it for a low net cost if it isn't what you expected it to be.

[OldBigEars]

23 hours ago, Calvin & Hobbes said:

There certainly is an element of warmth, but perhaps the bigger difference that I hear between the Pontus and the Qutest is the Pontus' ability to convey either ease or pace depending on what music is being played. The Qutest sounds perhaps more  insistent all of the time given the way it portrays detail.

 

I'm sure in about six months, there will be people selling their Pontus due to either "upgrading" to a more expensive Denafrips DAC (which I've seen already) or trading in to get the new "flavor of the month" DAC. You'll be able to buy a Pontus, try it out, and be able to resell it for a low net cost if it isn't what you expected it to be.

 

I'm tempted, but more likely will wait until the next 'best thing since sliced bread' DAC emerges.  I'm not sure the delta is really worth it, from my perspective.  Of course, we are all calibrated differently on that spectrum.  My Qutest already sounds pretty dang nice, and that's with a humble IFI iPower X power supply.  I prefer this PS to the original one that came with the product, and also prefer it to a battery charger that I tried for a few days.  I suspect I could improve the Qutest further by purchasing a better LPS. If I ever went down the Denafrips path, I'd probably look for a bigger step and try to reach for a Venus or Term.

[Vhond]

What about the comparison Pontus versus Musician Pegasus?