Curljam Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I currently listen straight from a roon core pc. I know roon says endpoints sound better. Should i focus on an endpoint first or should i put HQ player on the roon core. The endpoint would be in same room as the core anyway, any theories on what would be the bigger improvement? Thanks, new here so i hope its okay to just ask for advice first post. Link to comment
mfsoa Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I still want a folder view. I put my files in folders for a reason and now they cannot be used as intended (I have 2L folder that I used to play from. Now those tunes can no longer be selected without a lot of work as Roon has scattered them asunder). I didn't ask Roon to make it much harder to find those files. Why can't I just tell Roon to look for my files in the exact same way Iook for every other file on my PC? Mike Rubin 1 Link to comment
firedog Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 44 minutes ago, johncurley102381 said: I currently listen straight from a roon core pc. I know roon says endpoints sound better. Should i focus on an endpoint first or should i put HQ player on the roon core. The endpoint would be in same room as the core anyway, any theories on what would be the bigger improvement? Thanks, new here so i hope its okay to just ask for advice first post. I don't think anyone else can tell you what will sound better in your setup. Every one is different. You may or may not notice improvement with an endpoint. You can experiment with HQP in trial mode and see what you think. Maybe start with a modest endpoint like a Raspberry Pi, a second hand streamer or the new Sonore microRendu - something that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. See if you hear improvement. If not, you haven't lost much - especially with the Pi, that is inexpensive and can be reused for another task if you decide it isn't your endpoint. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
bbosler Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 On 2/2/2021 at 9:14 AM, AudioDoctor said: I hope they have worked on the Discovery some as I find it to be extremely repetitive with the albums it suggests. I second that, ... they do tend to play the same things over and over.. I'm also disappointed in the album/artist information they provide. It all comes from AllMusic which is extremely limited on artists/albums that are less main stream so they have nothing about a lot of what I listen to. Concerning sound quality, It can be easily shown that the data delivered from Roon is exactly the same as the data delivered from other music players. I don't dismiss the possibility that the different ways these programs interact with the operating system may affect some aspect of the timing of the data, but I put that on the DAC's inability to handle it. In my experience trying just about every kind of clocker, re-clocker, cable, server, etc. known to man... it's all about the DAC. YMMV. If Roon sounds different, another possibility is that the digital processing functions of Roon have been inadvertently turned on. If you click on the volume control icon (little speaker lower right corner) in Roon and select DSP it will show you what if anything is enabled. Mike Rubin 1 see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, bbosler said: I second that, ... they do tend to play the same things over and over.. I'm also disappointed in the album/artist information they provide. It all comes from AllMusic which is extremely limited on artists/albums that are less main stream so they have nothing about a lot of what I listen to. Concerning sound quality, It can be easily shown that the data delivered from Roon is exactly the same as the data delivered from other music players. I don't dismiss the possibility that the different ways these programs interact with the operating system may affect some aspect of the timing of the data, but I put that on the DAC's inability to handle it. In my experience trying just about every kind of clocker, re-clocker, cable, server, etc. known to man... it's all about the DAC. YMMV. If Roon sounds different, another possibility is that the digital processing functions of Roon have been inadvertently turned on. If you click on the volume control icon (little speaker lower right corner) in Roon and select DSP it will show you what if anything is enabled. Not sure & many others here would agree. I know many here that use Chord Dave DAC, I myself TAD DAC. High end DACs. Doesn’t make any difference how good your DAC is. The fact remains Roon sound quality compared to other players like Euphony, HQPlayer to be inferior! & now TAS (from initial reports) Taiko has designed its own software because of the variable sound quality from Roon’s updates. I”ll leave at that! If happy with Roon SQ then you’re happy. That’s great. Enjoy! Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, bbosler said: I second that, ... they do tend to play the same things over and over.. I'm also disappointed in the album/artist information they provide. It all comes from AllMusic which is extremely limited on artists/albums that are less main stream so they have nothing about a lot of what I listen to. Concerning sound quality, It can be easily shown that the data delivered from Roon is exactly the same as the data delivered from other music players. I don't dismiss the possibility that the different ways these programs interact with the operating system may affect some aspect of the timing of the data, but I put that on the DAC's inability to handle it. In my experience trying just about every kind of clocker, re-clocker, cable, server, etc. known to man... it's all about the DAC. YMMV. If Roon sounds different, another possibility is that the digital processing functions of Roon have been inadvertently turned on. If you click on the volume control icon (little speaker lower right corner) in Roon and select DSP it will show you what if anything is enabled. Well... What DAC do you suggest? Besides the Yggy I also have a Lampizator Pacific which has a built in Roon bridge, and HQPlayer to an NAA to the USB input still sounds better than Roon direct. ASRMichael 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post ASRMichael Posted February 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2021 Can I clear up a few things... I am not trying to offend anyone who is using Roon. I’m giving feedback from my experience with Roon that’s all. I’m also trying to say there is ways to get better SQ out of your existing gear by not using it. I appreciate that only applies to people who think SQ is the most important factor. If it’s not or user experience & SQ are on par then yes continue using Roon. After all they have the best user experience out there...no doubt about that. What disappoints me is the lack of care when rolling out updates with regards to SQ changes! After all many people spend their hard earned money on hifi gear to sound the best. I just read on WBF a user from here posted a question regarding SQ & it was removed/snubbed! Hopefully Chris asked them the difficult question on SQ in the next podcast. E.g. Do you have a rigorous process to ensure Roon sounds the best, & if so what is the process for beta testing? If it’s not a priority then just say so & we can move on. AudioDoctor and MemoryPlayer 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted February 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 4, 2021 13 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: I just read on WBF a user from here posted a question regarding SQ & it was removed/snubbed! I guess they have decided Roon is whats best... edit: I love Roon for its interface, for its potential and the ambition the developers have in even making it. I want Roon to do well and succeed, become better and grow. I paid for a lifetime license because I see the potential in Roon and want to support that. I have to acknowledge that there are ways to get even better sound out of it though. Perhaps the developers of Roon do as well as they give the options to interface Roon with other playback systems. To think otherwise would be to deny what my ears have very clearly heard, and well, I can't. ASRMichael and Axiom05 1 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
robbbby Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 I run roon server on a qnap nas. Does that mean in order for me to upgrade to 1.8 I will need to wait for the creator/developer to update the qnap roon server? Link to comment
Popular Post bbosler Posted February 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, ASRMichael said: Doesn’t make any difference how good your DAC is. The fact remains Roon sound quality compared to other players like Euphony, HQPlayer to be inferior! Given there are so few things in this hobby that are universally true and can be considered "facts".... I am happy for you that you think you found one. This may sound snarky, but I long ago discovered that most audiophiles who live in a world of absolutes are best ignored. I firmly believe in the concept of expectation bias, so once their mind is made up, they tend to hear what they want to or expect to hear. Another red flag for me is the declaration that something that is different is "inferior." I recall a grand pronouncement a while back where Taiko declared Roon changed something and the sound quality suffered. Then a few weeks later they retracted it. How did they hear a difference caused by Roon and then not hear a difference. Maybe because they expected to hear something? My point being, many things attributed to one factor such as the use of Roon may actually be caused by another, or heaven forbid, somebody thought they heard a change that didn't actually happen. 3 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: Well... What DAC do you suggest? I use an Antelope Eclipse 384 which has studio quality clocks built in. I have tried a multitude of different schemes for feeding it digital data and in my experience it handles whatever you throw at it. I have tried enough options that I'm confident that as long as the data isn't corrupted it sounds the same no matter the source. Lucky me as I don't sit there and wonder what I could do to improve it.. a good place to be. In my experience, and that is all I can go by, if a DAC is so affected by the software that is sending it the same data as another piece of software, or so affected by the hardware processing that data, or the cables carrying the data... the DAC is flawed. In my experience... note I don't declare this to be a "fact" spin33 and Urs 1 1 see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 hours ago, mfsoa said: I still want a folder view. I put my files in folders for a reason and now they cannot be used as intended (I have 2L folder that I used to play from. Now those tunes can no longer be selected without a lot of work as Roon has scattered them asunder). I didn't ask Roon to make it much harder to find those files. Why can't I just tell Roon to look for my files in the exact same way Iook for every other file on my PC? The trick is bookmarks Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 6 hours ago, johncurley102381 said: The endpoint would be in same room as the core anyway, any theories on what would be the bigger improvement? What endpoint ? How is it powered. Maybe start a new tread ? Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 1 hour ago, robbbby said: I run roon server on a qnap nas. Does that mean in order for me to upgrade to 1.8 I will need to wait for the creator/developer to update the qnap roon server? NO Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted February 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2021 @bbosler well, ok. I don't want to appear as if I am arguing with you. I am glad you have something that you like the sound of. At the end of the day, that we each like our own systems is what matters. spin33 and bbosler 2 No electron left behind. Link to comment
InVinoVeritasty Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/3/2021 at 12:39 PM, ASRMichael said: If you don’t notice then... .... then ipse dixit Link to comment
Popular Post firedog Posted February 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2021 On 2/4/2021 at 7:29 AM, AudioDoctor said: I find a pretty big difference between using Roon by itself to playback files, and using Roon with HQPlayer to playback the files. Roon + HQPlayer sounds far far better than Roon alone. Uh, if you are using HQP as intended (modulators and upsampling) then of course it sounds different, as you aren't playing back a bit perfect stream. You're altering it. If you are using HQP just as a transport, with all it's functions turned off, seems sort of odd. Jussi himself says he doesn't see a reason for that. In any case, if that's what you are doing, it remains a possibility that HQP is altering the stream in a way you like via the volume control or some other setting. bbosler, mesonto, spin33 and 1 other 1 1 2 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Curljam Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 15 hours ago, R1200CL said: What endpoint ? How is it powered. Maybe start a new tread ? sorry, i saw multiple people talking about roon sound quality, thought it would be okay to ask those people a question. Won't be back Link to comment
R1200CL Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 27 minutes ago, johncurley102381 said: sorry, i saw multiple people talking about roon sound quality, thought it would be okay to ask those people a question. Won't be back Please don’t be afraid to start a tread. Many will help you. Your subject is very interesting to discuss. (It may been discussed elsewhere). Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 5, 2021 Share Posted February 5, 2021 4 hours ago, Curljam said: sorry, i saw multiple people talking about roon sound quality, thought it would be okay to ask those people a question. Won't be back Your initial post was in the middle of another discussion, and I completely missed it. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted February 5, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2021 16 hours ago, firedog said: Uh, if you are using HQP as intended (modulators and upsampling) then of course it sounds different Yes, but I didn't say different, I said better. I don't find Roon by itself to sound very good. I find it acceptable on its own when running on Euphony OS, but then using it with HQPlayer still sounds better. 4est and mesonto 2 No electron left behind. Link to comment
bbosler Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 18 hours ago, AudioDoctor said: Yes, but I didn't say different, I said better. I don't find Roon by itself to sound very good. I find it acceptable on its own when running on Euphony OS, but then using it with HQPlayer still sounds better. Maybe I'm a little slow.. I understand you prefer Roon with HQPlayer enabled, what I'm not sure on is if you are processing with HQP or just passing the data through it. Curious what settings you use that cause you to hear an improvement. I also use HQP with Roon upsampling to maximum power of 2 with Poly-sinc filters. I slightly prefer the sinc-M filters but the processing delays cause songs to be cut off when using Roon radio, Also curious if this result would be the same no matter what front end you were using for HQP. In other words, is HQP making up for some inherent issue with Roon, or is it that you just like what HQP is doing no matter what comes before. see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
Popular Post ASRMichael Posted February 6, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, bbosler said: Maybe I'm a little slow.. I understand you prefer Roon with HQPlayer enabled, what I'm not sure on is if you are processing with HQP or just passing the data through it. Curious what settings you use that cause you to hear an improvement. I also use HQP with Roon upsampling to maximum power of 2 with Poly-sinc filters. I slightly prefer the sinc-M filters but the processing delays cause songs to be cut off when using Roon radio, Also curious if this result would be the same no matter what front end you were using for HQP. In other words, is HQP making up for some inherent issue with Roon, or is it that you just like what HQP is doing no matter what comes before. Euphony / HQP sounds far better than Roon / HQP. By long way. (Using same HQP settings). mesonto and AudioDoctor 1 1 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, bbosler said: Maybe I'm a little slow.. I understand you prefer Roon with HQPlayer enabled, what I'm not sure on is if you are processing with HQP or just passing the data through it. Curious what settings you use that cause you to hear an improvement. I also use HQP with Roon upsampling to maximum power of 2 with Poly-sinc filters. I slightly prefer the sinc-M filters but the processing delays cause songs to be cut off when using Roon radio, Also curious if this result would be the same no matter what front end you were using for HQP. In other words, is HQP making up for some inherent issue with Roon, or is it that you just like what HQP is doing no matter what comes before. Of course I am upsampling with HQP. I am also using its volume control. IMO HQP is much cleaner sounding, less dark and muddy, than Roon is on its own. I also agree with @ASRMichael that Euphony and HQP sounds far better than Roon and HQP. I use Sinc-L and either NS9, NS5, or LNS15 depending on DAC and what I am upsampling. I find Roon radio plays just fine for me, internet radio works just fine. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Dr Tone Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 23 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Of course I am upsampling with HQP. I am also using its volume control. IMO HQP is much cleaner sounding, less dark and muddy, than Roon is on its own. You’ve changed the content completely and then blame Roon. This quoted comparison is a comparison of your DACs internal upsampling vs HQP’s. Not Roon vs HQP. Roon Rock->Auralic Aria G2->Schiit Yggdrasil A2->McIntosh C47->McIntosh MC301 Monos->Wilson Audio Sabrinas Link to comment
bbosler Posted February 6, 2021 Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, ASRMichael said: Euphony / HQP sounds far better than Roon / HQP not very familiar with Euphony. Are you using a complete Euphony system (hardware + software) or just running it on your computer? Are you comparing Roon and HQP when running it inside of Euphony or some other way? It looks to me like you can use Roon and HQP inside of Euphony so trying to wrap my head around what is actually going on and how you are using it. All 3 (Euphony, Roon, and HQP) can function as the file player on their own, Roon can use HQP player, Euphony can use Roon and HQP, so I don't understand how they are all integrated. looks interesting but also looks like so many options/variables it is hard to do apples to apples or even figure out how it is all configured.. like I said, maybe I'm a little slow R1200CL 1 see my system at Audiogon https://systems.audiogon.com/systems/768 Link to comment
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