Article: Major Changes For Roon in Version 1.8

[AudioDoctor]

I hope they have worked on the Discovery some as I find it to be extremely repetitive with the albums it suggests.

[AudioDoctor]

As long as I continue to get the big pictures of cute blondes, I am okay with it...  ;-)

 

I kid of course, I would like to see the Discovery work a bit better, I find it a bit repetitive when used frequently. I actually liked being able to scroll by page left and right using keyboard buttons. Now that I have most of the keyboard shortcuts figured out, they will probably change.

 

Obligatory cute blonde picture.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

@The Computer Audiophile I am curious to know if the Roon server will run on the M1 mini as that would give me a use for the one I have here. I think my 2011 is dying a slow heat death and I may kill it for good by attempting to reapply thermal paste tomorrow.

[AudioDoctor]

11 hours ago, Foggie said:

Not sure if this is what you are referring to but, per Chris above "UPDATE: Just got confirmation that version 1.8 won't initially support Apple Silicon natively. Rosetta 2 is required."

 

Thanks, I had not seen the update.

[AudioDoctor]

2 hours ago, jhwalker said:

 

... because there aren't any ;)

 

I find a pretty big difference between using Roon by itself to playback files, and using Roon with HQPlayer to playback the files. Roon + HQPlayer sounds far far better than Roon alone.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, bbosler said:

 

I second that, ... they do tend to play the same things over and over.. 

 

I'm also disappointed in the album/artist information they provide. It all comes from AllMusic which is extremely limited on artists/albums that are less main stream so they have nothing about a  lot of what I listen to.

 

Concerning sound quality, It can be easily shown that the data delivered from Roon is exactly the same as the data delivered from other music players. I don't dismiss the possibility that the different ways these programs interact with the operating system may affect some aspect of the timing of the data, but I put that on the DAC's inability to handle it. In my experience trying just about every kind of clocker, re-clocker, cable, server, etc. known to man... it's all about the DAC. YMMV.

 

If Roon sounds different, another possibility is that the digital processing functions of Roon have been inadvertently turned on. If you click on the volume control icon (little speaker lower right corner) in Roon and select DSP it will show you what if anything is enabled.

 

 

 

Well... What DAC do you suggest? Besides the Yggy I also have a Lampizator Pacific which has a built in Roon bridge, and HQPlayer to an NAA to the USB input still sounds better than Roon direct.

[AudioDoctor]

13 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

I just read on WBF a user from here posted a question regarding SQ & it was removed/snubbed! 

 

I guess they have decided Roon is whats best...

 

edit: I love Roon for its interface, for its potential and the ambition the developers have in even making it. I want Roon to do well and succeed, become better and grow. I paid for a lifetime license because I see the potential in Roon and want to support that. I have to acknowledge that there are ways to get even better sound out of it though. Perhaps the developers of Roon do as well as they give the options to interface Roon with other playback systems. To think otherwise would be to deny what my ears have very clearly heard, and well, I can't.

[AudioDoctor]

@bbosler well, ok. I don't want to appear as if I am arguing with you. I am glad you have something that you like the sound of. At the end of the day, that we each like our own systems is what matters.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

4 hours ago, Curljam said:

sorry, i saw multiple people talking about roon sound quality, thought it would be okay to ask those people a question.  Won't be back

 

Your initial post was in the middle of another discussion, and I completely missed it.

[AudioDoctor]

16 hours ago, firedog said:

Uh, if you are using HQP as intended (modulators and upsampling) then of course it sounds different

 

Yes, but I didn't say different, I said better. I don't find Roon by itself to sound very good. I find it acceptable on its own when running on Euphony OS, but then using it with HQPlayer still sounds better.

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, bbosler said:

 

Maybe I'm a little slow.. I understand you prefer Roon with HQPlayer enabled, what I'm not sure on is if you are processing with HQP or just passing the data through it. Curious what settings you use that cause you to hear an improvement. I also use HQP with Roon upsampling to maximum power of 2 with Poly-sinc filters. I slightly prefer the sinc-M filters but the processing delays cause songs to be cut off when using Roon radio,

 

Also curious if this result would be the same no matter what front end you were using for HQP. In other words, is HQP making up for some inherent issue with Roon, or is it that you just like what HQP is doing no matter what comes before.

 

 

Of course I am upsampling with HQP. I am also using its volume control. IMO HQP is much cleaner sounding, less dark and muddy, than Roon is on its own. I also agree with @ASRMichael that Euphony and HQP sounds far better than Roon and HQP. I use Sinc-L and either NS9, NS5, or LNS15 depending on DAC and what I am upsampling. I find Roon radio plays just fine for me, internet radio works just fine.

[AudioDoctor]

49 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

You’ve changed the content completely and then blame Roon. This quoted comparison is a comparison of your DACs internal upsampling vs HQP’s.  Not Roon vs HQP.

 

If that were true, don't you think my DAC would so the same to both sources?

Second, I do not like Roon as is, however using the exact same hardware with different software sound better. Geez, it's not a hard concept.

[AudioDoctor]

11 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

not very familiar with Euphony. Are you using a complete Euphony system (hardware + software) or just running it on your computer? Are you comparing Roon and HQP when running it inside of Euphony or some other way?

 

It looks to me like you can use Roon and HQP inside of Euphony so trying to wrap my head around what is actually going on and how you are using it. All 3 (Euphony, Roon, and HQP) can function as the file player on their own, Roon can use HQP player, Euphony can use Roon and HQP,  so I don't understand how they are all integrated.

 

looks interesting but also looks like so many options/variables it is hard to do apples to apples or even figure out how it is all configured.. like I said, maybe I'm a little slow

 

 

 

Euphony is just the name for the OS, which is an audio optimized version of Arch Linux. It contains Stylus, Roon server, and HQP embedded which can be used in various ways to playback music. If a person is using it with Roon and HQP it is no different in basic operation than a headless Ubuntu server running Roon and HQP.

[AudioDoctor]

5 minutes ago, bbosler said:

 

. but if Euphony is the OS don't you also need a file player like Roon to use HQP, not just "Euphony and HQP"? Not being argumentative, but with the "various" ways you mention it isn't clear which of the various ways you have determined is the best

 

Euphony has its own player called Stylus if you dont want to use Roon. It can interface with HQP or play by itself. Roon can play by itself, or use HQP or Stylus, and I think you can use HQP embedded all by itself as well if you wanted to.

 

As for the best way to use it, in my experience using Stylus to playback the files all by itself is the best way to get the best sound.

[AudioDoctor]

30 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

If that were true, don't you think my DAC would so the same to both sources?

Second, I do not like Roon as is, however using the exact same hardware with different software sound better. Geez, it's not a hard concept.

 

Quoting myself because I can no longer edit.

I also have three DACs here, 1 of which I know for a fact  does zero upsampling.

[AudioDoctor]

3 minutes ago, bbosler said:

got it, one more and I'll leave you alone... what computer are you running Euphony on? I don't suppose you have any experience with their hardware?

 

(sorry, that's 2 questions)

 

I built my own server mostly following the same build of our own Computer Audiophile that he wrote about on this site as his CAPS build. I have zero experience with their hardware.

 

edit: I did not build an endpoint, yet... For that I am using either a Raspberry Pi as an NAA, or my Sonore Signature Rendu Optical, also as an NAA.

[AudioDoctor]

8 minutes ago, bbosler said:

ok, fair enough... so if I get it.. Euphony is not a player, it is an OS. So how are you playing your files once you boot up Euphony?

 

man, that's been asked by you here in this thread many times, and answered each time...

[AudioDoctor]

58 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

But you told us one source is purposely modifying the signal and you like it better than the source that isn’t.  If you want to compare software, compare them both doing absolutely no bit manipulation.

 

I repeat, you don’t like your DAC as much when not fed upsampling from HQPlayer it has nothing to do with Roon.

 

 

Ok, let me break this down barney style for you...

 

If I have a DAC that is so bad that it makes me not like the sound of something because of its upsampling, what is stopping it from doing that same trick of ruining my music no matter what source I plug into it? Does the DAC have a personal vendetta against Roon, so it chooses to ruin only Roon streams? Are you personally offended that someone doesn't like the sound of Roon by itself?

 

What I said is, that I like the sound of Roon and HQP better than I like the sound of Roon by itself. I also said that I find that to be true no matter how Roon is played back, or how the other sources are, or are not, used. I also said I have 3 different DACs here and I find it to be true among all of them, including one that I know for a fact does zero upsampling.

 

I am also not alone with this belief. My opinions here are also not an attack on you. You're free to believe and to listen however you want.

[AudioDoctor]

45 minutes ago, ted_b said:

(or using a remote like HQPDcontrol to remotely pick HQP library files) sounds even better. 

 

I have to agree with this as well. I find HQP by itself to sound better than Roon and HQP used together.

[AudioDoctor]

4 hours ago, bbosler said:

 

in case anybody cares. I did just that and it will not boot on either of my Mac Minis. I contacted Euphony and they said sometimes it just doesn't work, they don't know why..  

 

That's a bummer, which year minis are they?

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, bbosler said:

 

a 2012 i5 with 16G ram and a 2018 i7 with 32G

 

here's their response... I tried the link with same result... looks like they have given up trying to get them to work

 

Seems like you almost exhausted all options.
You can try the last one using this link: http://audiokernel.com/euphony20190214v3.img.gz

Sorry about this. Some Minis just work and some don't. We never got a hand on one of those that don't but even if we did, it's hard to debug the boot process - you never get any usable info on why it fails....

 

Well, I know exactly why the 2018 didn't boot, but the 2012 is odd as it is basically identical to my 2011 which booted it just fine.

[AudioDoctor]

10 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

Kinda, uh, purplish.

 

ha, yes it is.

[AudioDoctor]

I find Roon great at cataloging your own files as you see fit. It helps a great deal to do a complete and proper tagging job before importing them into your Roon library, but once there, you can mix and match and add your own till your heart is content. Even with needle drops it let me identify this album, gathered the metadata, and displays it all correctly.

 

 

[AudioDoctor]

6 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I don’t dismiss your assessment or experience, but it’s quite different than mine.  My metadata is anally consistent and meticulous, yet my experience is the exact opposite of yours.  I guess that, as we audiophiles are so fond of saying, YMMV. 

 

Nor do I discount yours, as I echo that experience in some cases. I guess I am less bothered by it. Here is an example of one of my files Roon has no clue about. I do not consider The Hot Sardines as being too far afield or esoteric that this album should not be identified, but even when I try manually I am unable to find it.