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Need Help Picking My Next Speakers


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I'm looking for a new pair of speakers for a hifi system that I will be building from scratch so I don't have any components picked out yet, but I know I want to add one or two subwoofers later on. This is going to be in a smaller room, 15x12x8, my listening position is about 10ft from where I intend to put the speakers. I do not like speakers that sound "bright". I prefer the look and sound of big speakers but I understand that they may not be the best choice with my room. I listen to many genres of music so I need a speaker that sounds ok with most types of music, that being said I've heard a few "good" speakers and none of them made any music sound bad to me. I prefer to listen to music at higher volume since I have some hearing damage from working in the music industry.

 

My priorities in order from most to least important

  1. Under $3000
  2. Not too fatiguing/bright/analytical
  3. Loud
  4. Versatile 
  5. Under $2000
  6. Big

Some speakers I've heard good things about

  • Kef R3
  • Ohm Walsh 1000/2000
  • Kef Q950
  • Monitor Audio Silver 300
  • Wharfedale Linton
  • Wharfedale Evo 4.4

 

Thanks for any help!

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15 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Add consideration for Revel 206 (or 208, if you can buy used)

 

I though that revels were supposed to be brighter. Is that not correct? Also both speakers are a bit out of my price range if they aren't used. I suppose I should clarify my price range is for a pair not per speaker.

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Nothing wrong with used or demoed. I bought a pair of Revel M126Be speakers, open box and paid 3K for both. They are not bright but they are very detailed. I have the Linton Heritage and they are a little harder to drive than the Revels.

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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2 hours ago, Cosmic_Error said:

I though that revels were supposed to be brighter. Is that not correct?

Generally, not in my experience and I have the MAs in my other home.  OTOH, I cannot vouch for all on your list.

2 hours ago, Cosmic_Error said:

Also both speakers are a bit out of my price range if they aren't used.

AFAIK, the F206 are $3500/pr MSRP.  Discounts are possible.  Used can be an alternative.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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2 hours ago, ted_b said:

What are you driving them with?  Some speakers are difficult to drive unless you have a certain amount of power (wattage/current/etc).  Others are easily driven by flea amps. 

 

I haven't picked out the rest of the system yet, I have a $2000 amp budget if that helps.

 

1 hour ago, InVinoVeritasty said:

 

I don't have a car right now... Mine died and I'm not buying a new one until I really need it, but I'm working from home right now so it would be a waste of money for the time being.

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@Cosmic_Errorhello- Suggest you go to the Legacy Audio web site-they are in Springfield,Illinois. Speakers are handmade there each are paired individually not in mass production- I have the Studio HD monitors perfect for your described setup which is similar to mine. Also more expensive Calibre(both passive and powered versions). Have you looked at Schiit Audio for amps/dacs? I have the Ragnarok which drives my Legacies very well and is a schiitful of great headphone amp especially if you need to use headphones for your hearing loss. bobbmd

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@Cosmic_Error There are many good options, but you could compare suggestions to ice cream flavors. My preference for mint not match yours for chocolate. So with huge depreciation a factor, if you can't listen to candidates, consider buying used at 50-60% of MSRP. You can consider your purchase an extended demo with your room and your amp. If you pivot, you won't lose your shirt.

Another consideration is floorstanding vs. bookshelf. You'll certainly want stands for any bookshelf type speaker to get their best performance. Once you consider that on stands, floorspace used often isn't much different than a floorstander. If your preference is a warmer tonal balance, a larger cabinet will generally produce more/better bass which contribute towards that warmer balance, so a modest floorstander may be your best route. 

From your list, IMHO, the Monitor Audio sounds most like your description of what you're after. However, I'd suggest researching Totem, Golden Ear, and most of all a used pair of Vandersteens. All these and most speakers will sound MUCH better a few feet into the room from the wall behind them. If you're dead set on having speakers against the wall, please look for a speaker designed with that in mind. 

If you haven't considered them Magnepan .7 planars are a tremendous performer for their price. Many never turn back once they try planar speakers. Looks and how they work in your room are a very personal thing. If you google photos, you'll see many make planars fit tremendously in a variety of room types/styles.  

Digital Source: Synology DS415+ NAS  and Small Green Computer SonicTransporter i5 Running Roon Core > Blue Jean Cable Cat6a >TP optical converter > Sonore OpticalRendu with Sonore LPS> Curious USB > Denafrips Pontus DAC

Analog Source: Dynavector XX2 mk2> Audiomods Series 5 silver arm > Sota Nova Series VI turntable w/Condor & Roadrunner motor controller/tachometer > Nagra BPS battery powered phono stage>

Both: BAT VK51SE preamp> Krell FPB300 power amp > Sound Lab A3 ESLs > > Custom room treatment > 50 yr. old ears(left-handed)

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32 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

@Cosmic_Errorhello- Suggest you go to the Legacy Audio web site-they are in Springfield,Illinois. Speakers are handmade there each are paired individually not in mass production- I have the Studio HD monitors perfect for your described setup which is similar to mine. Also more expensive Calibre(both passive and powered versions). Have you looked at Schiit Audio for amps/dacs? I have the Ragnarok which drives my Legacies very well and is a schiitful of great headphone amp especially if you need to use headphones for your hearing loss. bobbmd

 

 

Those Legacy speakers look really good. Any idea how they compare to the philharmonic audio bmr? I've heard really good things about that speaker and it seems like these two speakers might be pretty similar. Also how would you describe the sound of the studio hd e.g. bright, warm? Lastly I've wanted Schiit audio products since I was in high school, but I'm not sure that they pack enough punch for all of the speakers I'm considering, that's something that will have to wait till I decide which the speakers I want.

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Buying speakers is a bit like buying ice cream... you are going to have a sound "flavor" preference. Plan on doing some traveling to different show rooms as its not common

to live in a city large enough to have a wide variety of audiophile dealers. Speakers I would recommend auditioning as extreme differences in "flavor"

 

1) Magnepan 0.7 with sub, 1.7 without sub

2) Zu Soul

 

I suspect much of what you were thinking about above  would fit in the category of conservative "vanilla", nothing wrong but could be not to your taste preference.

 

Once you have settled on a speaker then you will know its impedance over frequency range characteristics and can shop for an amplifier that will behave well with it.

In the 2 choices above Magnepans have a low efficiency rating with nominal 4 ohm impedance that can drop to 2 ohms, hence a more powerful amplifier that behaves well with low impedance loads is required ($$$). The Zu Soul is high efficiency, ranges between 10~40 ohms so requires much less power and is far easier to get a good amplifier match ($$).

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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@Cosmic_Error Sorry I would have no idea how they compare-I just know I had wanted them for 20 years and finally got 'em! Why don't you call and speak to them I found they are very receptive.That said I would describe them as 'warm' very encompassing the 'separation' is exquisite as well as the detail and bass is outstanding... I sit in a big arm chair ~10ft from center sound stage with the speakers~13-14 ft apart. The sound is centered directly in front of me drums/guitars/other strings/chorus voices to left and right of me. I like folk/americana/bluegrass so I particularly enjoy hearing the instruments separated and integrated like that.The Schiit products will certainly drive all speakers you listed they certainly drive mine-ask Legacy and contact Schiit they are also very receptive but take care they are more than a little sarcastic and tongue in cheek.If there is a Legacy dealer near you go and compare(there wer none near me so I went by their own ads and multiple reviews) or if you are close enough to Springfield go there(and if you are close to LA visit Schiit they even have a listening studio now--I don't live anywhere near where the earth burns,moves and has no water so I have never been there either)-- all I know is that those 2 Studio HDs took the place of 5-7.1 system I had of CambridgeSoundworks (Henry Kloss's last company-RIP) towers and satellites and model 6's and subwoofer and the legacies blow that system away in just 2 channel and no subwoofer.The Rggy amp with Yggy GS DAC drive those speakers so well I never have the volume dial no more than at 3 oclock if that helps at lowest gain setting and even less like 12 oclock for 2x and 3x gain on the RGGY.

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1 hour ago, sbank said:

@Cosmic_Error There are many good options, but you could compare suggestions to ice cream flavors. My preference for mint not match yours for chocolate. So with huge depreciation a factor, if you can't listen to candidates, consider buying used at 50-60% of MSRP. You can consider your purchase an extended demo with your room and your amp. If you pivot, you won't lose your shirt.

Another consideration is floorstanding vs. bookshelf. You'll certainly want stands for any bookshelf type speaker to get their best performance. Once you consider that on stands, floorspace used often isn't much different than a floorstander. If your preference is a warmer tonal balance, a larger cabinet will generally produce more/better bass which contribute towards that warmer balance, so a modest floorstander may be your best route. 

From your list, IMHO, the Monitor Audio sounds most like your description of what you're after. However, I'd suggest researching Totem, Golden Ear, and most of all a used pair of Vandersteens. All these and most speakers will sound MUCH better a few feet into the room from the wall behind them. If you're dead set on having speakers against the wall, please look for a speaker designed with that in mind. 

If you haven't considered them Magnepan .7 planars are a tremendous performer for their price. Many never turn back once they try planar speakers. Looks and how they work in your room are a very personal thing. If you google photos, you'll see many make planars fit tremendously in a variety of room types/styles.  

 

Not super about the used scene but I would consider it for the right speakers at the right price, but having no warranty makes me uncomfortable. As for the magnepans I heard they had to be pretty far from the wall and I cant get them too far away, that being said a foot or two isn't an issue three feet might be pushing it though. Lastly what Vandersteens do you suggest I look into?

 

1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Buying speakers is a bit like buying ice cream... you are going to have a sound "flavor" preference. Plan on doing some traveling to different show rooms as its not common

to live in a city large enough to have a wide variety of audiophile dealers. Speakers I would recommend auditioning as extreme differences in "flavor"

 

1) Magnepan 0.7 with sub, 1.7 without sub

2) Zu Soul

 

I suspect much of what you were thinking about above  would fit in the category of conservative "vanilla", nothing wrong but could be not to your taste preference.

 

Once you have settled on a speaker then you will know its impedance over frequency range characteristics and can shop for an amplifier that will behave well with it.

In the 2 choices above Magnepans have a low efficiency rating with nominal 4 ohm impedance that can drop to 2 ohms, hence a more powerful amplifier that behaves well with low impedance loads is required ($$$). The Zu Soul is high efficiency, ranges between 10~40 ohms so requires much less power and is far easier to get a good amplifier match ($$).

 I definitely intend to eventually get a sub but it might be a bit would the 1.7 get any improvement from a sub? Also what sort of sound character do the magnepans have?

 

54 minutes ago, bobbmd said:

@Cosmic_Error Sorry I would have no idea how they compare-I just know I had wanted them for 20 years and finally got 'em! Why don't you call and speak to them I found they are very receptive.That said I would describe them as 'warm' very encompassing the 'separation' is exquisite as well as the detail and bass is outstanding... I sit in a big arm chair ~10ft from center sound stage with the speakers~13-14 ft apart. The sound is centered directly in front of me drums/guitars/other strings/chorus voices to left and right of me. I like folk/americana/bluegrass so I particularly enjoy hearing the instruments separated and integrated like that.The Schiit products will certainly drive all speakers you listed they certainly drive mine-ask Legacy and contact Schiit they are also very receptive but take care they are more than a little sarcastic and tongue in cheek.If there is a Legacy dealer near you go and compare(there wer none near me so I went by their own ads and multiple reviews) or if you are close enough to Springfield go there(and if you are close to LA visit Schiit they even have a listening studio now--I don't live anywhere near where the earth burns,moves and has no water so I have never been there either)-- all I know is that those 2 Studio HDs took the place of 5-7.1 system I had of CambridgeSoundworks (Henry Kloss's last company-RIP) towers and satellites and model 6's and subwoofer and the legacies blow that system away in just 2 channel and no subwoofer.The Rggy amp with Yggy GS DAC drive those speakers so well I never have the volume dial no more than at 3 oclock if that helps at lowest gain setting and even less like 12 oclock for 2x and 3x gain on the RGGY.

 

 

I would love to check out a dealer unfortunately I don't have reliable transportation right now (I have money saved for a car but I just don't want to start paying for insurance until I need to start driving to work again) and the nearest dealer to me is 4 hours away and I can't easily get a ride that far so the money to try out speakers would end up coming out of my speaker budget.  

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8 minutes ago, Cosmic_Error said:

Lastly what Vandersteens do you suggest I look into?

https://www.vandersteen.com/products/model-2ce-signature-iii if buying new. 

https://www.vandersteen.com/products/model-3a-signature if buying used.

Digital Source: Synology DS415+ NAS  and Small Green Computer SonicTransporter i5 Running Roon Core > Blue Jean Cable Cat6a >TP optical converter > Sonore OpticalRendu with Sonore LPS> Curious USB > Denafrips Pontus DAC

Analog Source: Dynavector XX2 mk2> Audiomods Series 5 silver arm > Sota Nova Series VI turntable w/Condor & Roadrunner motor controller/tachometer > Nagra BPS battery powered phono stage>

Both: BAT VK51SE preamp> Krell FPB300 power amp > Sound Lab A3 ESLs > > Custom room treatment > 50 yr. old ears(left-handed)

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1 hour ago, Cosmic_Error said:

 

...

 

 I definitely intend to eventually get a sub but it might be a bit would the 1.7 get any improvement from a sub? Also what sort of sound character do the magnepans have?

 

 

 

I would love to check out a dealer unfortunately I don't have reliable transportation right now (I have money saved for a car but I just don't want to start paying for insurance until I need to start driving to work again) and the nearest dealer to me is 4 hours away and I can't easily get a ride that far so the money to try out speakers would end up coming out of my speaker budget.  

Magnepans are planar magnetic speakers. If you have listened to  Hifiman or Audeze headphones, you have had a taste of the planar magnetic sound signature. As such they are resolving, neutral and capable of full orchestra playback. But for those who like hard rock concerts they don't do

really loud decibels well and their weakest point is dispersion, sweet spot for listening is about 1 person wide. The difference between

the .7 and 1.7 is  bass panel size, a .7 can't go as deep. Subs with bigger magnepans I don't recommend unless you can afford an expansive sub

to match the speed of the  magnepan bass panel. The .7 really doesn't save you any money if you try to

match the bass of the 1.7 with a sub, its just smaller, more living room friendly than the larger Magnepan's. 

 

Zu's are dynamic speakers, excellent dispersion so everyone on a 3 seater couch should be happy with their seat. IThey are  fast, punchy,

remind me of JBL but without their excessive mid-range coloration. They do impart a tone color signature from the materials that the drivers

are made of, but the sound stays natural and its lightning fast on transients.

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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1 hour ago, davide256 said:

Magnepans are planar magnetic speakers. If you have listened to  Hifiman or Audeze headphones, you have had a taste of the planar magnetic sound signature. As such they are resolving, neutral and capable of full orchestra playback. But for those who like hard rock concerts they don't do

really loud decibels well and their weakest point is dispersion, sweet spot for listening is about 1 person wide. The difference between

the .7 and 1.7 is  bass panel size, a .7 can't go as deep. Subs with bigger magnepans I don't recommend unless you can afford an expansive sub

to match the speed of the  magnepan bass panel. The .7 really doesn't save you any money if you try to

match the bass of the 1.7 with a sub, its just smaller, more living room friendly than the larger Magnepan's. 

 

Zu's are dynamic speakers, excellent dispersion so everyone on a 3 seater couch should be happy with their seat. IThey are  fast, punchy,

remind me of JBL but without their excessive mid-range coloration. They do impart a tone color signature from the materials that the drivers

are made of, but the sound stays natural and its lightning fast on transients.

 

 

Thanks for this advice, after what you said I don't think the magnepans are for me I like loud music and I listen to a lot of rock and metal. What zu should I check out?

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28 minutes ago, Cosmic_Error said:

 

 

Thanks for this advice, after what you said I don't think the magnepans are for me I like loud music and I listen to a lot of rock and metal. What zu should I check out?

They have quite a range.  Least expensive is the Zu Omen DIrty weekend special, these are cyclically available on a limited basis (March 25th )starting

at $999 and going up based on finish chosen. The standard version is the Omen MkII, runs $2250 per pair but is on hold till June because of supply chain disruption. Then lots of other models that tweak the sound in different ways, the Soul, Soul Supreme and Druid models are popular and available, ranging from $2250 to $10K.

 

What makes the Omen dirty weekend attractive to many is that if you feel you under bought you can trade it up in the first year after purchase with Zu for 100% of your purchase price

 

https://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-dirty-weekend-ii

Regards,

Dave

 

Audio system

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I had a pair of used Vandersteen 2Ci's, which were rebuilt by Vandersteen, and I couldn't get rid of the speakers fast enough. They just sounded like, meh. I even had the Sound Anchor stands for them.

 

Only you can decide what sounds good to you.

 

I would go with Revel, myself - the F206, as was stated by @Kal Rubinsonwould be where I would go.

 

 

Current:  Daphile on an AMD A10-9500 with 16 GB RAM

DAC - TEAC UD-501 DAC 

Pre-amp - Rotel RC-1590

Amplification - Benchmark AHB2 amplifier

Speakers - Revel M126Be with 2 REL 7/ti subwoofers

Cables - Tara Labs RSC Reference and Blue Jean Cable Balanced Interconnects

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29 minutes ago, Rexp said:

If you have a poor source into great amp/speakers it will sound poor so I would start by finding a streamer/DAC/headphone amp (assuming you use digital) you like first. 

 

 

I have a Rega Planar 3 as a source but my thrift store amp kicked the bucket a while ago so I'm getting something decent this time. Plus I have no decent headphones.

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You're not going to make progress until you demo some amps and speakers yourself. No one else can pick which components you're going to like! If you take a poll you'll get positive and negative views on most components.

Now you've said you're source is vinyl you'll need an integrated amp with phono. If you also want digital you'll need to allocate funds for a DAC/streamer or inboard DAC. You might want to consider the amp choice first, spend more on quality and power, then get good headphones or bookshelf speakers to upgrade later. If you chose wisely on the bookshelf speakers you might just need the subs to complete the system.

If you already had a digital source (with volume control) I'd have suggested you combine your amp+speaker budget and go direct into actives, but that might still work with a suitable preamp for vinyl input.

Good hunting!

🎸🎶🏔️🐺

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@blue2 raises some great points about feature sets that will affect your amp/pre/digital decision. But while electronics do have their own sonic flavors to SOME degree, I'd argue that variation is sonics ranges far more widely with speakers So I'd try to narrow down the speaker first to whatever matches your personal preferences and is best value for your budget. 

 

As an example, IMHO, Zu speakers have a distinct sonic signature that my local audio club has found polarizing...some love 'em, some hate 'em. Some of their models have built-in amps that drive just the low-end drivers. This makes them pair up well w/modest tube power to drive just the mids & highs. If such Zus are your cup of tea, you'd want to consider that before choosing an amp. BTW, they offer some really cool modern colors and even pattern painted cabinets if you are into bold artistic design.

Digital Source: Synology DS415+ NAS  and Small Green Computer SonicTransporter i5 Running Roon Core > Blue Jean Cable Cat6a >TP optical converter > Sonore OpticalRendu with Sonore LPS> Curious USB > Denafrips Pontus DAC

Analog Source: Dynavector XX2 mk2> Audiomods Series 5 silver arm > Sota Nova Series VI turntable w/Condor & Roadrunner motor controller/tachometer > Nagra BPS battery powered phono stage>

Both: BAT VK51SE preamp> Krell FPB300 power amp > Sound Lab A3 ESLs > > Custom room treatment > 50 yr. old ears(left-handed)

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3 hours ago, blue2 said:

You're not going to make progress until you demo some amps and speakers yourself. No one else can pick which components you're going to like! If you take a poll you'll get positive and negative views on most components.

Now you've said you're source is vinyl you'll need an integrated amp with phono. If you also want digital you'll need to allocate funds for a DAC/streamer or inboard DAC. You might want to consider the amp choice first, spend more on quality and power, then get good headphones or bookshelf speakers to upgrade later. If you chose wisely on the bookshelf speakers you might just need the subs to complete the system.

If you already had a digital source (with volume control) I'd have suggested you combine your amp+speaker budget and go direct into actives, but that might still work with a suitable preamp for vinyl input.

Good hunting!

 

 

I realize that it would be better for me to actually demo things but unfortunately it is simply impossible for me to demo equipment with spending a large amount of money. That money would be coming directly out of my speaker budget.

 

My current speakers are a pair of active Adam Audio T5V's and while I like them overall, I hate the hissing I can hear from them constantly (apparently this is just a problem that all active monitors have?), they also are not even close to loud enough for me and finally they lack bass. So I'm looking to try passive speakers this time around. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, sbank said:

@blue2 raises some great points about feature sets that will affect your amp/pre/digital decision. But while electronics do have their own sonic flavors to SOME degree, I'd argue that variation is sonics ranges far more widely with speakers So I'd try to narrow down the speaker first to whatever matches your personal preferences and is best value for your budget. 

 

As an example, IMHO, Zu speakers have a distinct sonic signature that my local audio club has found polarizing...some love 'em, some hate 'em. Some of their models have built-in amps that drive just the low-end drivers. This makes them pair up well w/modest tube power to drive just the mids & highs. If such Zus are your cup of tea, you'd want to consider that before choosing an amp. BTW, they offer some really cool modern colors and even pattern painted cabinets if you are into bold artistic design.

 

 

That's why I'm trying to figure out the speaker side of things first. The speakers dictate the amp not the other way around, at least from what I've heard.

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