EtherRegen A to B side and b to A side SQ comparison

[Frankie69]

Hello All,

 

I'm sorry if this has already been covered, but I'd like to ask about the EtherRegen's possible performance drop when fed fed from the "B" side with output to the "A" side. I use a Sonore OpticalRendu as my Roon end point and would like to replace my StarTech FMC to either a Sonore optical module or an ER. I'd like to keep the number of "boxes" at a minimum (less PSUs, also), so I don't want to use both. I know that the ER is meant to be used from the A side to the B while it's possible the other way round. Is the ER capable of delivering the very same sonic performance from the B side to the A compared to A -> B?

Please help, I'm a bit lost...

Thank you,

Ferenc

[JohnSwenson]

There is a slight addition phase noise going from B->A as opposed to A->B. This is because the clock is in the B side and has to go through an isolator to get to the A side. The isolator we use has quite low additive phase noise, but it is not zero. 

 

The oM has some external phase noise attenuation (noise on the Ethernet getting into the optical signal), but the ER has much more.

 

Thus it is highly likely for the ER even in B->A configuration sounding better than the oM.

 

John S.

[Frankie69]

Thank you John for your very useful insight!

 

Ferenc

[Frankie69]

Hello again John,

 

I think I'm going to buy the ER providing better SQ than the oM.

Just one more question: having the ER and the opticalRendu in my system does this mean that due to optical isolation the quality of the upstream elements of my network (modem, router) are almost irrelevant (provided the ER and the oR are fed with very good quality power)?

I would just like to determine whether the purchase of a more expensive router/switch would have a major impact on SQ.

 

Thank you,

Ferenc

[Superdad]

17 minutes ago, Frankie69 said:

Just one more question: having the ER and the opticalRendu in my system does this mean that due to optical isolation the quality of the upstream elements of my network (modem, router) are almost irrelevant (provided the ER and the oR are fed with very good quality power)?

Almost. But may will claim they still hear a little difference with regards what is upstream.

 

17 minutes ago, Frankie69 said:

I would just like to determine whether the purchase of a more expensive router/switch would have a major impact on SQ.

"Major impact?" I don't think so!

Would advise you start first with the EtherREGEN and opticalRendu.  Depending upon what you are upgrading from, that combo with a plenty fine revelation to keep you going for quite some time. 

[Frankie69]

Thank you Alex! I already own an opticalRendu, but using it with a StarTech FMC - this is the device I want to upgrade to an EtherREGEN.

[R1200CL]

On 1/25/2021 at 6:49 AM, JohnSwenson said:

There is a slight addition phase noise going from B->A as opposed to A->B. This is because the clock is in the B side and has to go through an isolator to get to the A side.

 I suppose the same apply when an external clock is in use ?

 

On 1/25/2021 at 6:49 AM, JohnSwenson said:

The isolator we use has quite low additive phase noise, but it is not zero. 

So I’m general, isolators will degrade a clock ? It’s a bit OT, but if an external clock has isolated outputs, one should expect some degradation?

 

Will an isolator be used on sine wave or square wave ?

(As all square is first a sine). 

[Superdad]

48 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 I suppose the same apply when an external clock is in use ?

Yes.

48 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

So I’m general, isolators will degrade a clock ? It’s a bit OT, but if an external clock has isolated outputs, one should expect some degradation?

 

Will an isolator be used on sine wave or square wave ?

(As all square is first a sine). 

Complicated subjects. Please do not expect an answer from John right away as he is presently heads-down in a very intense set of engineering tasks.

I have his clock paper draft. However:

a) I too am extremely pressed for time this month (usual high volume production, parts ordering, client support, etc.), so have not had a chance to edit it for clarity;

b) Not all the answers you seek are in the paper. But it is a really interesting piece.

Thanks for your patience.

--Alex C.

[kennyb123]

On 2/2/2021 at 11:35 AM, Frankie69 said:

Thank you Alex! I already own an opticalRendu, but using it with a StarTech FMC - this is the device I want to upgrade to an EtherREGEN.

 

I found the StarTech FMC to be doing harm in my system - even though it was upstream of my EtherRegen.  It contributed to harshness that vanished when I swapped it for an opticalModule.  I think the EtherRegen would be a very good move for you to make.

[GryphonGuy]

On 2/3/2021 at 3:35 AM, Frankie69 said:

Thank you Alex! I already own an opticalRendu, but using it with a StarTech FMC - this is the device I want to upgrade to an EtherREGEN.

 

Don't muck around, EtherREGEN fed by optic fibre, in my system at least, is far and away worth any money to achieve. My DAC has pristine audio since doing this. You won't regret it. EtherREGEN all the way.

 

Regards

GG

[Frankie69]

 

7 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

 

I found the StarTech FMC to be doing harm in my system - even though it was upstream of my EtherRegen.  It contributed to harshness that vanished when I swapped it for an opticalModule.  I think the EtherRegen would be a very good move for you to make.

 

Thanks a lot for sharing your experience with the StarTech FMC - I feel that smg is not right in my system. While playing very smoothly via CD (this is an all Audio Note system) the streaming sounds harsh and edgy. I'll surely swap it for an oM or ER.

[Frankie69]

5 hours ago, GryphonGuy said:

 

Don't muck around, EtherREGEN fed by optic fibre, in my system at least, is far and away worth any money to achieve. My DAC has pristine audio since doing this. You won't regret it. EtherREGEN all the way.

 

Regards

GG

 

Thanks GG for your advice. In my case I would utilize the ER as an FMC, too - so I would use it from side B -> A, but I'm sure it's still a lot better this way than using the StarTech FMC.

[R1200CL]

@Superdad

I understand, I want get an answer, or not the answer I want, but do you think an updated version of EtherRegen with also fiber out is B side ? (Yes in order to use on opticalRendu). The optoRegen 😀

Why not make separate clock inputs on each side of the moat ?

I guess not, cause then the clock cable will be the one braking isolation all the time. 

Isn’t technical possible to use fiber as clock cable? Any drawbacks ?

And wouldn’t fiber also remove the need of an isolation circuit?