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Streamer I2S vs ddc with I2S


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Question from a digital newbie, I purchased a dac with I2S input and I keep hearing and reading that the I2S connection sounds better than USB. I was considering moving to a streamer to lower any PC noise interference but now I am wondering if using my MacBook --->DDC---> dac will give me the same results as streamer with I2S---> dac. I am sure many Members here have much more experience than me in the digital music field and I would appreciate any help I can get. Thank you and stay safe!

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A laptop, whether that is a Mac or otherwise is no great comparison to a streamer, and a comparison is difficult without naming the streamer (or its price range).

 

IN general I'd say that a halfway decent streamer is likely going to sound better than a Macbook plus DDC.

 

I have used a laptop for long, then switched to an Intel NUC , then an Intel NUC with DDC (modded Singxer SU1), then to I2S from the SU1, and then to I2S from the NUC into my DAC. Each step was a clear improvement.

 

The best SQ was clearly I2S out of the dedicated audio computer straight into the DAC, yet that comes at a cost....sadly, yet as more often as not is the case in life, it comes down to available budget and motivation to spend.

And of course the rest of your chain...is that capable of much higher sound quality, are you going to upgrade etc etc...welcome to the rabbit hole of computer audio!

 

 

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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Hi @Boniccie,

 

I'd agree with @MarceINL here that a dedicated streamer or server would almost certainly be a step up on using any laptop and a DDC.

 

However it's a rabbit hole I'm afraid. Firstly there aren't many streamers or servers with I2S output and they tend to gravitate towards the higher price ranges link the Pink Faun.

 

So that perhaps points towards a streamer or server and a DDC.

 

The second area of complexity/contemplation/anxiety is that the DDC will almost certainly benefit from a good power supply. For example I too had the Singxer SU-1 that is referenced in your first reply and loved it. But an uptone audio LPS-1 made a big improvement on the sound quality.

 

If I was going the DDC route today I'd be tempted by either the SU-6 (successor to the SU-1) or the Matrix X-SPDIF2 (as many users on the PS Audio forum rave about this unit used with the Directstream DAC that I have).

 

And I'd also want either an LPS-1.2, a Paul Hynes SR4T or a Farad Super3 to ensure I was getting the most out of it. But you enter the weird territory here where the PSU costs more than the unit it's powering 🙄

 

FWIW I think a DDC and decent PSU would almost certainly improve your sound quality with your MAC laptop. But I also think a dedicated streamer/server would also improve things.

 

The good news is there are plenty options and many ways to SQ nirvana.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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First I started using a JCat USB (1.1) later the Pink Faun, but one briefly as the PF only did work part time under W10...

 

The best comparison I could make in the setup with the NUC was after the SU1 DDC, going from USB to SPDIF was a jump, going from SPDIF to I2S into the Metrum was another jump in SQ.

 

Mind you these differences are delicate BUT all important, the average EE will not hear squat of a difference as bits are bits and tone is a freq wave but they are material to the result.

Airiness, blacker background, lower noise, better layering etc etc, all these things that matter once a set has reached a certain stage of maturity.

 

 

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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On 1/23/2021 at 4:25 AM, BigAlMc said:

Hi @Boniccie,

 

I'd agree with @MarceINL here that a dedicated streamer or server would almost certainly be a step up on using any laptop and a DDC.

 

However it's a rabbit hole I'm afraid. Firstly there aren't many streamers or servers with I2S output and they tend to gravitate towards the higher price ranges link the Pink Faun.

 

So that perhaps points towards a streamer or server and a DDC.

 

The second area of complexity/contemplation/anxiety is that the DDC will almost certainly benefit from a good power supply. For example I too had the Singxer SU-1 that is referenced in your first reply and loved it. But an uptone audio LPS-1 made a big improvement on the sound quality.

 

If I was going the DDC route today I'd be tempted by either the SU-6 (successor to the SU-1) or the Matrix X-SPDIF2 (as many users on the PS Audio forum rave about this unit used with the Directstream DAC that I have).

 

And I'd also want either an LPS-1.2, a Paul Hynes SR4T or a Farad Super3 to ensure I was getting the most out of it. But you enter the weird territory here where the PSU costs more than the unit it's powering 🙄

 

FWIW I think a DDC and decent PSU would almost certainly improve your sound quality with your MAC laptop. But I also think a dedicated streamer/server would also improve things.

 

The good news is there are plenty options and many ways to SQ nirvana.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Thank you very much for sharing with me. Stay Safe!

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On 1/23/2021 at 4:25 AM, BigAlMc said:

Hi @Boniccie,

 

I'd agree with @MarceINL here that a dedicated streamer or server would almost certainly be a step up on using any laptop and a DDC.

 

However it's a rabbit hole I'm afraid. Firstly there aren't many streamers or servers with I2S output and they tend to gravitate towards the higher price ranges link the Pink Faun.

 

So that perhaps points towards a streamer or server and a DDC.

 

The second area of complexity/contemplation/anxiety is that the DDC will almost certainly benefit from a good power supply. For example I too had the Singxer SU-1 that is referenced in your first reply and loved it. But an uptone audio LPS-1 made a big improvement on the sound quality.

 

If I was going the DDC route today I'd be tempted by either the SU-6 (successor to the SU-1) or the Matrix X-SPDIF2 (as many users on the PS Audio forum rave about this unit used with the Directstream DAC that I have).

 

And I'd also want either an LPS-1.2, a Paul Hynes SR4T or a Farad Super3 to ensure I was getting the most out of it. But you enter the weird territory here where the PSU costs more than the unit it's powering 🙄

 

FWIW I think a DDC and decent PSU would almost certainly improve your sound quality with your MAC laptop. But I also think a dedicated streamer/server would also improve things.

 

The good news is there are plenty options and many ways to SQ nirvana.

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Thank you Alan!

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On 1/23/2021 at 6:23 AM, MarcelNL said:

First I started using a JCat USB (1.1) later the Pink Faun, but one briefly as the PF only did work part time under W10...

 

The best comparison I could make in the setup with the NUC was after the SU1 DDC, going from USB to SPDIF was a jump, going from SPDIF to I2S into the Metrum was another jump in SQ.

 

Mind you these differences are delicate BUT all important, the average EE will not hear squat of a difference as bits are bits and tone is a freq wave but they are material to the result.

Airiness, blacker background, lower noise, better layering etc etc, all these things that matter once a set has reached a certain stage of maturity.

 

 

Thank you very much!

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  • 4 weeks later...

We (Musica Pristina) used to have a lower cost ($2k-ish) streamer / player with I2S out. It’s expensive to do because it’s a low volume market. If I made 1000 units, it would cost about half what it costs to make < 100.

 

I have some I2S boards that are capable

of sending an LVDS signal matching the “PS Audio Spec.”

 

Maybe I missed it, but what DAC do you have?

Listening Room: Musica Pristina A Cappella III (R&D model) Streamer > i2s (HDMI LVDS) > Musica Pristina Virtuoso DAC > Quad II Eighty Amps > Quad ESL 2905 Speakers > Very Happy Ears
DIY Owens Corning Room Treatment
ManufacturerMusica Pristina

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@kdubious to who are you responding?

I2S to LVDS and RJ45 boards are readily available a.o. by audiogd.

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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@kdubiousare you a manufacturer or dealer?  It looks like you are; if so please put that info in a link in your signature.  I applaud those folks, like @AfterDark., who, when reminded a few days ago, immediately put that info in his signature block.

 

Don't get me wrong...I LOVE chatting with manufacturers and dealers here on AS.  They bring important leading edge info, good feedback, and often easy access to products and services.  But......they also bring a bias that needs to be well-publicized...a financial interest that undoubtedly categorizes their opinions to a separate category when discussing products and services they are involved in.  Let's be transparent, folks.  👍  This hobby is hard enough.  🙂

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6 hours ago, kdubious said:

Sorry @MarcelNL, I saw this last night on my phone wand was replying to @Boniccie but couldn't get the @ to trigger.

No sweat, I was not clear who you were responfing to, no offense taken!

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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@ted_b I am a "manufacturer." I started here (well, on CA) in 2011. Haven't updated my profile in a little while. Thanks for the reminder.

Listening Room: Musica Pristina A Cappella III (R&D model) Streamer > i2s (HDMI LVDS) > Musica Pristina Virtuoso DAC > Quad II Eighty Amps > Quad ESL 2905 Speakers > Very Happy Ears
DIY Owens Corning Room Treatment
ManufacturerMusica Pristina

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@ted_b I'll work on getting post my numbers up!

 

@Downtheline We could sell them, I'm not sure what people need. I have a 2 different boards that we've used / use in products.

The first one is tiny, about 1.25 square inch with an HDMI connector on it. It's a simple circuit that takes:
+5V, GND, BCLK, LRCLK and SDATA as 3.3v signals on solder pads, and outputs the PS Audio Spec on an HDMI cable.

The second is similar to the first, but with much improved isolation circuitry. For the cost of a little latency, you get wonderful galvanic isolation and nice solid drivers. It measures about 1.25 x 3 and has a chunky Amphenol panel mount HDMI port. There's a 16 Pin female header on the bottom for signal input.

Listening Room: Musica Pristina A Cappella III (R&D model) Streamer > i2s (HDMI LVDS) > Musica Pristina Virtuoso DAC > Quad II Eighty Amps > Quad ESL 2905 Speakers > Very Happy Ears
DIY Owens Corning Room Treatment
ManufacturerMusica Pristina

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26 minutes ago, kdubious said:

We could sell them, I'm not sure what people need.

The only I2s via hdmi PCIe card available for diy projects like Nenon's dual cpu is from Pink Faun. It is limited to 32 bit/192KHz. It is upgradeable with better clocks however. There are a few dac manufacturers as you know making dacs with I2s inputs like the new Holo May that is getting alot of attention. Couple new dacs coming from PS Audio including a DSmkII.  I'd be happy to try something different with my current diy platform (single xeon silver 4210) if you are willing to go into that space. 

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If that is another option (PCIe to I2S) that could be interesting, I have the Pink Faun with OXCO and it's pretty good but without comparison...would be happy to test to compare, my next step likely is to audition the PF ultra OXCO module.

 

 

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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@davide256 All of my experience with I2S vs USB leads me to believe that I2S is a substantially more appropriate interface for audio connections. It's not "U"niversal, though.

 

Converting HDMI to I2S defeats a major benefit of using I2S. In a pure I2S world, I can use an OCXO clock to take the bits from memory and clock an I2S Signal (LRCLK, BCLK & SDATA) to pass to the DAC chip. Anything else requires translations, and the circuitry required to make them.

Listening Room: Musica Pristina A Cappella III (R&D model) Streamer > i2s (HDMI LVDS) > Musica Pristina Virtuoso DAC > Quad II Eighty Amps > Quad ESL 2905 Speakers > Very Happy Ears
DIY Owens Corning Room Treatment
ManufacturerMusica Pristina

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@kdubious PCIe is not windows specific, what about Linux? (I'm running Daphile, which is a Linux version using LMS)

 

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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@MarcelNL I tried to clarify with "Windows PCs / Computers." I don't have a PCIe device either way.

 

In my experience, a small SoC is much easier to pull great sound out of than a full blown PC. So we use an OCXO clock to pull I2S out of light-weight device. Something like a Raspberry Pi (but not one).

 

We do use Linux, though we build it from scratch. I also had to write the driver to control the clock board and create the I2S. I think PCIe would be a whole lot of work and no real sonic benefit.

Listening Room: Musica Pristina A Cappella III (R&D model) Streamer > i2s (HDMI LVDS) > Musica Pristina Virtuoso DAC > Quad II Eighty Amps > Quad ESL 2905 Speakers > Very Happy Ears
DIY Owens Corning Room Treatment
ManufacturerMusica Pristina

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@kdubious Thanks for clarifying!

In my experience so far dynamics etc come by more processing power, yet I see how there are more ways to skin a cat!

 

ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. 

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