Article: Reality Quest: Power and Digital Audio with the Sean Jacobs DC4 and Sound Application PGI TT-7 (Part 2 of 2)

[ray-dude]

That's good info to calibrate.  My suggestion is plug things into the wall.  If dynamics and speed go up, but you get harshness, it's time for a PLC.  There are lots of ways to clean power, but usually come at a cost with dynamic current. You'll hear one as noise floor or fatigue, and the other as dynamics and soundstage.  Better home wiring and power cords and going direct to wall will give you max dynamics.  Going through filters and transformers will give you max clean.  By hopping back and forth, you can calibrate where the right balance is for you (and whether slogging up that hill is worth it to you)

[ray-dude]

Alas no Frank.  These single drivers are very directional. so it is hard for me to apply that test (if I go too much to the left or right levels get way out of balance).  

[Nenon]

5 hours ago, Exocer said:

What are others using in the $1000 - $1500 range?

 

3 hours ago, Downtheline said:

I used a passive device previously that was better than regular power strips, I then bought a used p5 power conditioner from ps audio.  That was a major step up, and was one of the only times my wife commented on the audio quality improvement without promoting. So perhaps a used p5 or p3 stellar. 

 

FWIW, my Ref TT-7 replaced a PS Audio P20, their biggest and best power regenerator. And I never looked back.

I am expecting my 240V TT-7 now and expect that to be another big step from the Ref TT-7.

[Downtheline]

19 minutes ago, Nenon said:

Ref TT-7 replaced a PS Audio P20, their biggest and best power regenerator. And I never looked back

Interesting data point and comparison. I always have wondered how these ps audio products compare to other power conditioning products. I think the comparisons are challenging, and I have seen few published. Any other passive line conditioners out there others think are contenders?

[happybob]

3 hours ago, Nenon said:

FWIW, my Ref TT-7 replaced a PS Audio P20, their biggest and best power regenerator. And I never looked back.

I am expecting my 240V TT-7 now and expect that to be another big step from the Ref TT-7.

Nenon, if you could elaborate a bit on the difference between the TT-7 and the PS Audio power regenerator, that'd be much appreciated. I've got a PS Audio P10 and it's pretty good but I feel I'm missing some dynamics and perhaps more (I do have dedicated AC runs to the box for my home).

Also, have you ever tried any of the Ansuz "power distributor" products? https://ansuz-acoustics.com/products/power-products/power-and-ground-distribution. Lots of folks feel these are really good and I'm wondering how they might compare to the Sound Application power conditioners.

 

Lastly, what are your thoughts on ferrites on power cables? Seems that they wouldn't do much damage to the relatively low frequencies that "dynamic power demands" require (like maybe 100s of KHz or so, but not multi MHz), but would get rid of some RF. That's been my experience in general, but you've gone way further in this realm. Thanks!

[Nenon]

2 minutes ago, happybob said:

Nenon, if you could elaborate a bit on the difference between the TT-7 and the PS Audio power regenerator, that'd be great. I've got a PS Audio P10 and it's pretty good but I feel I'm missing some dynamics and perhaps more (I do have dedicated AC runs to the box for my home).

 

I traded a P10 for a P20. That was an improvement up in every aspect. The dynamics with the P20 are just amazing. The stuff that Paul McGowan advertises about the incredibly low output impedance and instantaneous power reserve on the P20 is true. And that does result in stunning dynamics. 

 

The first thing that is immediately noticeable when I switched from the P20 to the TT-7 was the lower noise floor. You may think that the P20 has very dark background. And it does when compared to plugging everything directly to the wall. But in comparison to the TT-7 the P20 is a noisy device. Then you get the speed, transients, and everything else @ray-dude describes in this excellent review, and there is just no comparison in my system. 

 

I opened my P20 and looked at the parts inside. The power reserve gets stored in a huge bank of capacitors. I was so tempted to replace the twenty four $3 Cornell Dubilier capacitors with $30 Mundorf caps! Here is a photo of half of them inside my P20:

But I did not want to void the warranty on my P20. 

 

 

[happybob]

Nenon, that's great that the P20 was very good (although not at the TT-7 level) and that you didn't find the need to go "direct to the wall socket" with various gear to avoid any sonic anomalies. Thanks! 

[StreamFidelity]

5 hours ago, Downtheline said:

Any other passive line conditioners out there others think are contenders?

 

I can recommend GigaWatt. I use a smaller model Power Line Conditioner GigaWatt PC-2 EVO+ and it doesn't hold back any power for my T + A M10 Monos.

 

 

 

[MarkusBarkus]

FWIW: I have been very happy with the UberBUSS supplying my system for the past two years or so. PI Audio Group in New Mexico.
 

You won't find much on the website, but there are a few reviews in the wild. Dave Elledge is great to deal with. If you have the knowledge to quiz him, I'm sure it would be informative.

 

Search Term: UberBUSS

 

When I ordered my device I still had an SMPS on my Qutest (later moved to Farad3, to DAVE, to DAVE on DC4), so Dave E. did a custom device combining the UberBUSS with one outlet DigiBUSS filtering for the SMPS. About $1,400.00 if memory serves.

 

My device looks a bit vanilla, well, flat-black actually, but he will customize cases with exotic wood, etc. and add outlets as you like.

 

The standard outlets are P&S 5362A, but cryo-ed and polished. Furutech and others are available, as are various IEC inlets. I went with the UberPuerto outlets---polished, RFI paste internals, etc. and NCF inlets.

 

For TT-7 fans, I *think* the standard P&Ss are what Jim W. uses. They have excellent clamp strength and excellent metallurgy. Solid product.
 

BTW: I plan to run Jim's #6 ga. cable (with his outlets) when back in stock. I have a 12ga. homerun to the panel now, but this should be interesting. Thanks @Nenon, @austinpopand @ray-dude

 

How does the UberBUSS compare to much more expensive devices?
 

I don't know.

 

But I like it much better than the AQ1000 level product I had, but that is a basic offering in that line. Depending on your budget, it could be a good option. 

 

FYI from a PI Audiogroup paper:

 

"UberBUSS is a power filtration unit quite unlike others on the market. It is filtration only. There are no MOVs or other suppression devices to color the neutrality and introduce noise into the circuitry.
There are essentially three components in the UberBUSS. First, there is a reactive filter that absorbs and de-correlates the incoming AC noise. The filter has three sections: one for the H - N - G legs of the power. This leads to a Power Factor Correction network that increases the available power under the curve for enhanced dynamics - both micro and macro. Then there are AfterFilters on the receptacles to do more targeted noise reduction. This mainly keeps noise from the attached gear back-feeding into the main core of the UberBUSS.
The UberBUSS is current limited ONLY by the IEC power inlet. The main core will handle 40A all day long. There are no inductors used in the BUSSes. End to end inductance is < .003mH. End to end resistance is typically < 0.0035 ohms. This will vary with the inlet/outlet configurations.
The result is a dead black background... silence from a noise floor that is better than 125dB down. Enhanced dynamics coupled with the low noise floor reveal details never heard before. Neutrality was and is the design concept behind the UberBUSS. First, do no harm! Smooth neutrality is the sonic signature of the UberBUSS."

[wwc]

16 hours ago, Exocer said:

Excellent write-up! I am embarrassed to discuss what I use for power conditioning 😁. Hint - it costs less than $200 and is most likely the weakest link ib my system at this point. Your write-up is encouraging me to upgrade this unit sooner rather than later. Ive considered DIY means (replacing sockets with higher end units, upgrading internal wiring etc) but filtering wise, I would prefer not to go DIY there, as I am not knowledgeable enough.

 

@ray-dude - have you tried any reasonable lower cost units in your journey? 😁

 

What are others using in the $1000 - $1500 range?

 

Cheers!

-Rob

Look into PI Audio UberBuss

 

[ASRMichael]

On 1/21/2021 at 2:20 PM, MarkusBarkus said:

For folks using high-gauge wire runs from the panel to audio-feed outlets: how are you terminating into the outlets?

 

Crimp-on terminals? Please don't say you're pig-tailing them. Are you?

 

Any outlets I recall ever seeing, audiophile or other, max-out at 10 gauge, and even that can be a pain to fasten and get neatly into your gang box (outlet box), though manageable with care.

 

I have a 12ga. homerun to the panel for audio gear, and 10ga. homerun for network gear. Not sure what I was thinking there, although I have added gear since I pulled the dedicated line a couple of years back, and the network line is new.

 

I plan to pull another run for the audio gear, so I could do 8ga. instead of 10ga., if I sort out termination at the plug-end. Panel is NP/usual breaker stuff. Thanks!

If you don’t have Jim’s outlet. Use Furutech NCF. I use 6awg to my audio consumer unit, then 10awg from CU to Furutech sockets. I appreciate that’s a drop down in size but my socket are located 200mm away from the CU. Smaller being better. 
 

[MarkusBarkus]

For a short run, even my 25' panel-to-outlet, 10ga. is pretty good. JW said to me it's most of the way there. "There" being the 6ga. cable experience. He was uncertain about delivery time, (30-60 days?), so I may just run 10/2 Romex. Depends how jerky I get scratching hifi itches. Thanks for the comment, BTW. I do use/like NCF stuff...

[Exocer]

2 hours ago, wwc said:

Look into PI Audio UberBuss

 

Thank you! I have never heard of this unit and will do some research on it.

[ted_b]

I have an Uberbuss too, but had taken it out when I got my Topaz.  I wonder if it would help between Topaz and audio rack.

[fds]

14 hours ago, happybob said:

Also, have you ever tried any of the Ansuz "power distributor" products? https://ansuz-acoustics.com/products/power-products/power-and-ground-distribution. Lots of folks feel these are really good and I'm wondering how they might compare to the Sound Application power conditioners.

Also I would be interested to hear impressions from a comparison of the TT7 (or the P20) to say an Ansuz Mainz8 D or higher/newer.

[One and a half]

@ray-dude, thanks for a good read and inspiration to review clean AC power to audio equipment. 

 

Linear supplies can always cream SMPS, there's enough evidence on this site. 

 

 

[cat6man]

On 1/21/2021 at 3:58 PM, ray-dude said:

https://www.amazon.com/Shahen-Shah-Real-World-Nusrat-Fateh/dp/B06XYPMJ7D/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Nusrat+Fateh+Ali+Khan+shah&qid=1611262536&s=dmusic&sr=1-1

 

This is the album I own (also streaming I believe).  

 

aaaahhhh.  i have the Shahen Shah album and love it.  i never paid attention to what the first track was named!  i agree, it is brilliant

[Gavin1977]

@ray-dude should try swapping some of these in...https://audiowise-canada.myshopify.com/products/opto-usb-optical-signal-isolation

[wwc]

On 1/21/2021 at 6:59 PM, ray-dude said:

 

 

The Topaz Isolation transformers dropped the background level a huge amount.  These can be had used for several hundred $$.  Dynamics slowed (esp. as I upgraded to the Extreme), but it was a huge win as I was working up the ladder.

 

 

 

Ray,  From a dedicated line, I'm using a P.I Audio UberBuss passive conditioner in front of my amp and server (Extreme) and a Plixir BAC (balanced transformer) in front of my DAC.

 

I have a Topaz laying around doing nothing, but wondered if it would be theoretically useful in front of my Network which is on another circuit .  (Topaz > modem > Sonore OM > fiber > Extreme).   

 

Your thoughts appreciated!

[ray-dude]

It is certainly worth trying (and shouldn't cause any issues).  The IT does a great job of filtering noise, but it stunts current dynamics.  With your modem, not really an issue, and it isn't impacting the Extreme (where it is an issue)

 

 

[happybob]

I'm wondering if a "best possible" power solution (price no object) might not be essentially a super-version of a power regenerator? (like the PS Audio PerfectWave regenerators, but with much more current delivery capability). Trying to clean up existing power like so many of the solutions out there is of course a very worthy and clearly audible benefit, but I imagine perhaps a DIY project with huge energy storage (and with design such that dynamic current could be extremely high - much higher than the AC power from the wall can ever be - perhaps using supercapacitors like the EV race cars do). Certainly this would not be cheap or likely small, but it seems to me that super highend power delivery is increasingly a big part of the focus of products like the Taiko Extreme server, or the DC4 power supply for DACs, and many pieces of gear.

 

And that said, the external single super highend-LPS approach to power might increasingly catch on - either directly with products or in an aftermarket approach. Why have super high capacity and very clean AC power that then gets delivered to a modest AC to DC conversion stage in a component (transformers, rectifiers, etc.) which basically throttles the great AC coming in? This approach would also allow many good (but not great) components to be much much better simply by bypassing their power supply and connecting to their DC rails from a super highend (and perhaps somewhat universal with a variety of DC voltages supplied) DC power supply. Not an easily accomplished task, but perhaps might be increasingly embraced for the ultrahighend... 

[Datka]

hi looking for used DC3 for Chord DAVE so if anyone is looking to upgrade from DC4 and looking to sell theirs shot PM me pls... thanks. 

[ray-dude]

Just received my 2nd Sablon Audio King power cord and updated review with the following:

UPDATE (2/26/21): I have received my second Sablon Audio King power cord (20A IEC, from the wall to my TT-7). (Un)Surprisingly, adding the Sablon 20A King on TT7 PGI 240V is another first 3 seconds “I'm done here, no more listening tests needed” experience, even before burn in. There is a magic synergy going the wall to Sablon King to TT7 to Sablon King to Taiko Audio SGM Extreme. If you're investing in a Sound Application TT7, do yourself a favor and track down a Sablon King power cord to audition with it.

[AudioBang]

Pertaining to Orange Fuses:

Does anyone have experience with dual-fuse IEC inlets where a second Orange Fuse was inserted after listening to just one? I haven't found any information on SRs website or any forums or reviews pertaining to multiple fuses in line on the same circuit. 

 

[Gavin1977]

Hi @ray-dude.  I was lucky enough to hear a dc4 powered DAVE a couple of weeks ago, absolutely amazing what the DC4 does for the DAVE.

 

Now, I have a TT2 - would you say it scales the same, just with the audiable effect of having fewer taps?  Does anyone have a SJ DC4 TT2?

 

The addition of an mscaler, whilst nice, I can take or leave to be honest - I have a definite preference for PGGB.