Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 You are right this is a very good approach as soon as you can put the right level of data in ram (DSD files...). I have in mind that audirvana provide this kind of RAM loading/reading, not sure about the other. any way having a diretta protocol to feed the ram when it is needed could be a bonus. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 All the « best player » is your view. What I point is that the idea is nice, implementation is perhaps more difficult depending on the kind of files you are playing and how the ram feeding is done if ram is not enough to feed (Qobuz/tidal streaming, local streaming....). Thanks for mentioning TAS as I though they were using roon which is not reading from ram if I understanding well. BR Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1Gb allocated to files pre-loading is what... 2-3 albums in hirez ? Perhaps more than enough for most of the users and usage. ot makes sense where the player running audirvana or euphony or... is connected to the Dac. If you are using these softwares as servers perhaps a solution like diretta could help. Let me try again :-) Blog / Forum Link to comment
Popular Post Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 hours ago, matthias said: You mean a DAC with Diretta input connected to a server with Diretta output? But even then you have always some network activity between both. Matt Hi Matt, i was not clear enough. I mean there is a lot of different architecture for computer audio. The best way to use the files in RAM is to have a Player/streamer directly linked to a DAC in USB/AES/SPDIF....in this case no need of Diretta protocol as you have a direct link between the player and the dac. The only connected point is with internet in order to bring the streaming from platforms like qobuz. If you have an architecture with a server (what Diretta calls HOST) and a renderer (what Diretta calls TARGET) meaning an ethernet connection in between, in this case whereever you have a server managing RAM reading you need to go through an ethernet distribution so Diretta (or other can still makes sense). When you mention that TAS (or PinkFaun) could be a good solution reading from RAM it is also because you have the server and renderer in the same platform. Hope i was a bit more clear :-) Take care. Ludovic matthias and 87mpi 1 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 4 hours ago, matthias said: ... What about the clocking with Diretta, it is not asynchronous like USB. Matt Don't know.... Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Raat and naa are free when you have paid for roon and hq player if I understand well. what do you mean by « Well, it seems there is a huge lack of HW supported item that can understand the protocol » : completely unclear. it is clear that it is not a solution for everybody and by chance....you have the choice. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 20 hours ago, R1200CL said: https://support.diretta.link/doku.php?id=usb-dac However the Diretta site seems to mix several products, as well as ways of transferring data. One sketch indicates a master clock in a separate line as well, but it seems it has been removed the last hour. The mix of USB and ethernet, and lack of UPnP, is confusing for me. What about zones ? Is it supported ? I have requested Diretta to participate in this tread. If they doesn’t show up, it’s maybe just another scam equal to MQA. Very few it seems 😀 But I would like to understand limitations and requirements. YouTube DirettaSviluppo This explanation how software and use of IPv6 can reduce noise is interesting. Yes you are right : very few :-) perhaps it will go nowhere. Let’s see Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I fully understand your points and yes the improvement is real. You can find much more feedbacks on French board (forum-hifi.fr). Diretta is focusing on FB, this is their choice. They already integrated their solution with some manufacturers like Spec. Spec is using their Lucia module in the Spec USB target (https://www.spec-corp.co.jp/e/pdf/DIRETTA_V092.pdf). Take care Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted January 7, 2021 Share Posted January 7, 2021 Thanks for the quick assessment. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted March 13, 2021 Share Posted March 13, 2021 Your summary is not translating the subtlety of the original post. anyway this is a very good testimony as you mentioned done by a very balanced and skilled person. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 11 hours ago, hopkins said: I read the entire post, I am a native French speaker (so I did not miss any of the subtleties) and I summarized it accurately, IMO. The way you describe the imrovements (http://patatorz.com/2021/01/02/english-diretta-protocol-an-improvement-in-digital-streaming/) is very different from his - you don't need to read between the lines to understand that! These types of "tweaks" are probably not universal. If the improvements were completely random, I would assume high-end companies in Japan would not have bothered integrating this solution and offering them in 2000$ products, as they are not out to swindle their customers (though audiophiles can be an easy target!). So maybe there are some benefits, but its always good to avoid "hype" and present all points of view. Fully agree, more different feedbacks we have from different angles, better it would be as far people are open to read and acknowledge the experience, what i'm doing with Philippe's feedback. The testimony of philippe is clearly showing it is not universaland i assume it is the case for nearly all the tests and association of devices. The way you summarized it was introducing some bias around what Philippe clearly explained around his TAMBAQUI DAC. Concerning my words, yes very different from Philippe, and lot of people also are not recognizing their system through Philippe's feedback. is it a problem : not at all and it helps to understand how this solution is working and could bring some solutions to other. The DAC i use is a dCS Vivaldi and its Upsampler. I don't use HQplayer as i'm finding that dCS upsampler is doing a better job than HQPlayer for some DSD upsampling limited to DSD128. On this system, Diretta is providing better SQ according to me than using the Vivaldi ethernet connection. Does it mean that dCS is doing a poor ethernet connnexion : i don't know but seems MolaMola is doing better according to Philippe experience and this is a great information. Avoiding "hype" does not prevent to be open to experiences and avoid wrong "interpretation". SwissBear 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 59 minutes ago, hopkins said: All I did was highlight your friend's experience here by quoting his conclusions. You may find it frustrating that I don't share your enthusiasm, and I find it annoying that I am told that I twisted his words. I should not have replied to Patatorz's initial reaction, and left it at that. It’s fine you are not sharing any enthusiasm from my side especially because it is not enthusiasm. There is some drawbacks on diretta for sure adding some boxes, cables etc...which most of the times is bringing more questions than answers. Contradiction is always good and I value it when it is done openly. Don’t worry you did not twisted the words you just extracted what you want to hear/read. Let’s keep contradiction run in an healthy way :-) Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 On 3/16/2021 at 10:53 AM, hopkins said: You insist ! I extracted the conclusions, which summarized his experience (he has since modified slightly his post, BTW, but the conclusions remain). If you have an issue with what he wrote, take it up with him instead of accusing me. You could have also offered some constructive thoughts on his experience, instead of repeatedly claiming that I distorted things. I share my enthusiasm on this forum about some products, as you do. Recently, someone tried the product I talked about extensively, and returned it. I even took the trouble of re-posting his "negative" impressions - because we learn as much from the positive as from the negative criticism (as long as it remains "criticism" towards the product and does not turn into personal attacks). Manufacturers can also learn from the criticism - and may end up improving things. So there is no point in trying to hide things under the rug. You should take a breath and start thinking that universe is not running around you. Nobody is accusing you..you are using words that are really strong and completely out of the topic. Please take a breath. I learn from Philippe’s threads and fully respect : no point talking about that and the problem is not there. Already shared my thoughts as Pascal64 in other places. Bear also explained you that your way of doing was borderline. You are right you can learn from criticism. Qhwoeprktiyns 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Same from my side, official USB Stick from Diretta to sell (Diretta agrees on this transaction and would support the new owner). PM me if interested. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 On 4/25/2021 at 1:58 PM, hopkins said: I'm not fixating on his setup, and we would not be talking about it now where it not for Patatorz' insistance that I somehow misrepresented or distorted the guy's comments, ultimately resulting in personal attacks. Since when can we only share "positive" feedback? I rather not focus "just" on the positive reviews, or at least I try to understand the negative (or not so positive) ones as well. Its always good to get different point of views. I try things out if I feel it can bring something to my system and if it is easy to test. You can interpret that as you want, it does not matter, and I'm glad Diretta is a godsend to you. I spoke about Diretta on this very forum before this thread was even open (ok - only a day before!) encouraging people to try it, by the way, so I am not trying to "sabotage" anything! This is a joke : good to laugh around personal attacks. Difficult for you to be in front of the reality and recognize your strange behaviour. For sure positive, negative, constructive feedbacks are more than welcome. it is even better when it comes from people who tried and not take what they want from another forum to "animate" the discussion. Anyway not an issue, should be the right time to speak about Diretta and forget the trolls who have no clue about what they are talking about. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 Proven where ? I missed it. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 8, 2021 Share Posted May 8, 2021 On 1/4/2021 at 9:12 PM, R1200CL said: Since I noticed many people don’t read links provided, posted text from website. My understanding is that the whole point with the protocol, is to reduce rapid changes in power requirements in the digital chain. So by using ipv6 you get a fixed header? length of 40 instead of ipv4 that varies between 20 to 60, seems to be the key here. So you pay €500 for the SW, and you’re god to go or ? Well, it seems there is a huge lack of HW supported item that can understand the protocol. It also seems the company requires you to purchase HW from them, but I’m not sure. I just studied sketches here. https://support.diretta.link/doku.php?id=diretta:start A new protocol may be a good idea, if it does what is says, but RAAT and NAA is free, so I’m not sure they will succeed. ”Its philosophy is totally different from that of existing protocols. Many factors affect the sound quality of audio players. Power-supply noises generated by digital blocks on circuits significantly affect the sound quality.Usually, capacitors and inductors are placed at power sources to reduce the noises. In this way, we can configure low-pass filters and reduce spike-like digital-specific noises. However, as you can see from the fact that low-pass filters are used, any low-frequency fluctuation passes through. It isn' t necessary to filter it out because it isn' t a noise, and you can' t see it even if you observe it by focusing on voltage. But, if you observe it by focusing on electrical current, you can detect noises that affect the audio frequency band of a constant cycle. It is absolutely difficult to electrically eliminate the noises. We thought that we might be able to significantly improve sound quality by controlling these noises. However, it is very difficult and unrealistic to adopt constant current configuration, such as class-A amp, for all CPUs, etc. If we can solve this problem in a software-based approach, we can expect that implementation will be realized. There is only one way to achieve this goal: averaging of processing and reduction of fluctuations in power consumption. But, existing protocols couldn' t realize it. By means of Diretta, we would like to propose an answer to this problem. Please suppose that a player with an analog part is the Target and that a server with storage, etc., is the Host. The Target and the Host are designed based on separate concepts. With regard to the Target, processing is minimized and simplified to enable averaging. The Target is configured by means of simple processing, like hardware processing by FPGA. The Host operates in synchronization with the Target to average processing by the Target. Packets are transmitted as often as possible at constant short intervals in order to average processing.The transmission is controlled by forecasting Target buffers. In this way, fluctuations in power consumption of a player as the Target is averaged as much as possible. We don' t say that this method is definitely better than other transmission systems. But, we would like to propose one different approach. It is similar to USB synchronization, but the Target doesnt change speed because the Host synchronizes.There is no buffer/flow control like USB ansynchronization. Completely insulated connection can be used and fibers and other cables can be adopted because it is Ethernet.No complicated processing like UPnP file range requests is required. No complicated processing to synchronize many devices like AES67 is required, either. We are committed to evolving Diretta with the highest priority on sound quality and minimizing influence over analog blocks.” This is what you mean by proven ? raat and naa free : are you sure ? only ipv6 in the asio : are you sure ? purchase HW from them : are you sure ? seen from the moon perhaps…. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Popular Post Patatorz Posted May 15, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 15, 2021 SPEC using the LUCIA module of Diretta in their case with their dedicated Power Supply. Available in 2 versions : RJ45 and SFP….Link >> https://spec-corp.jp/audio/RMP-UB1/ Seems to be well welcomed in Japan with Diretta producing a new batch of Lucia modules for SPEC. Holzohr, Pascal64, Le dom and 1 other 4 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Popular Post Patatorz Posted May 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted May 16, 2021 Édit. No need to answer to agression Pascal64 and Qhwoeprktiyns 1 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I fully share the viewpoint of @SwissBear on the experience and the Diretta support. Always difficult to have professional to come on a forum. I was reading this afternoon some discussion around MPAudio and the request of the moderator to answer only to specific questions (always welcome) but the exercise is always borderline. They are answering quite well to support when somebody tries to implement this solution. This is perhaps all what they can do today according to their business model. @R1200CLConcerning the post concerning SPEC, it is just an information and do not see anything else behind. I fully share you or view that it is not because it is adopted that it proves anything. I would not use the same words as you as i try to remain polite. Please take some holidays in France and make a stop at home to listen and discuss. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 4 hours ago, hopkins said: Yes, no need especially when you can continue on the French forum with a more captive audience. But to get back to the subject matter, and put this bickering aside, I am just as curious as you to find out what various solutions can bring to the table. Since the time I started the thread on Diretta (not this one), I have found another simpler solution that suits me, and that's why I am no longer interested in testing it myself. Otherwise, I would have probably done so. I've tested a lot of things before, its part of the fun of the hobby. However, we cannot try everything. Have you tried PGGB, for example? Seems to be the latest thing to try. When you read the thread, they are pretty clear about the prerequisites and pros and cons, so you can make an informed choice to test it or not. Testing takes time, and sometimes requires specific skills. As you mentioned, it would be good if Diretta had some clearer instructions. Your tutorial on your blog is certainly helpful, and you could mention it here. Regardless, not everyone may be comfortable setting all this up, and it may not be a relevant solution for everyone. If you read this forum, you will see many people trying out various solutions, so I don't think you can say they are not open and adventurous enough to try this. You just have to be a little patient and wait until more people try it out and compare it. If Diretta is robust and adds value, then I am sure people will come around to it. Until then, don't forget: Enjoy Life Patatorz 😉 Not sure why you are making all your posts very personal Mr Hopkins who left a french forum insulting everybody, asking people to stop posting on « his thread » . If it is the way you like to interact with people, it is not mine. I have nothing to sell, nothing to prove. Writing a tutorial is just here to support anybody that would like to try as I’m fully aligned on the fact that Diretta (even SPEC) support is not enough to implement it and this solution remains a « niche » and a more a DIY solution. I agree with you on PGGB and according to their statement, yes i will not try personally but it does not mean that i would not listen. Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted May 23, 2021 Share Posted May 23, 2021 Few pictures of the assembly of the Development Kits for the B2B partners with 2x 5V DC inputs (Diretta LUCIA module) : LINK Pascal64 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted June 12, 2021 Share Posted June 12, 2021 Pachanko integrate Diretta in their servers/host and become Diretta partner. Optimized ASIO drivers coming ? Pascal64 1 Blog / Forum Link to comment
Patatorz Posted September 4, 2021 Share Posted September 4, 2021 Thanks Nobi for your feedbacks. Some french users were able to test the Aperitivo and compared it to a Diretta Target with SFP connection. Seems that having a fiber connection between the host and the target is at least as good as the aperitivo on different systems. Just a feedback for free. Diretta just released the Lucia Piccolo Development kit and Oliospec is the first one to put it on the market with the nice name of Canarino :-) Let's see. Blog / Forum Link to comment
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